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#151
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Dell computer with no input
Char Jackson wrote:
On Wed, 6 Dec 2017 20:51:39 -0600, philo wrote: On 12/02/2017 01:54 PM, Ken Blake wrote: On Sat, 2 Dec 2017 10:12:16 -0600, philo wrote: I never saw the point of a tablet. Small and light, so easy to travel with. But a smart phone is even smaller and lighter, and I now use mine instead of my tablet. I tend to use my Android for just about everything. Android what? Phone? Tablet? Other? He's got one of these, a (learning) Android robot. It's pretty kooky watching it drive a car. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DgA...ature=youtu.be Paul |
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#152
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Dell computer with no input
On Thu, 07 Dec 2017 15:25:14 -0500, Paul wrote:
Char Jackson wrote: On Wed, 6 Dec 2017 20:51:39 -0600, philo wrote: On 12/02/2017 01:54 PM, Ken Blake wrote: On Sat, 2 Dec 2017 10:12:16 -0600, philo wrote: I never saw the point of a tablet. Small and light, so easy to travel with. But a smart phone is even smaller and lighter, and I now use mine instead of my tablet. I tend to use my Android for just about everything. Android what? Phone? Tablet? Other? He's got one of these, a (learning) Android robot. It's pretty kooky watching it drive a car. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DgA...ature=youtu.be That explains why he uses it for just about everything. :-) -- Char Jackson |
#153
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Dell computer with no input
On 12/07/2017 02:16 PM, Char Jackson wrote:
On Wed, 6 Dec 2017 20:51:39 -0600, philo wrote: On 12/02/2017 01:54 PM, Ken Blake wrote: On Sat, 2 Dec 2017 10:12:16 -0600, philo wrote: I never saw the point of a tablet. Small and light, so easy to travel with. But a smart phone is even smaller and lighter, and I now use mine instead of my tablet. I tend to use my Android for just about everything. Android what? Phone? Tablet? Other? I have an LG-6 phone Really like it a lot. My first one was a very cheap Samsung and the reason I upgraded was for more storage and a better camera. Rarely use any of my "real" cameras anymore |
#154
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Dell computer with no input
On 12/07/2017 08:12 PM, Char Jackson wrote:
On Thu, 07 Dec 2017 15:25:14 -0500, Paul wrote: Char Jackson wrote: On Wed, 6 Dec 2017 20:51:39 -0600, philo wrote: On 12/02/2017 01:54 PM, Ken Blake wrote: On Sat, 2 Dec 2017 10:12:16 -0600, philo wrote: I never saw the point of a tablet. Small and light, so easy to travel with. But a smart phone is even smaller and lighter, and I now use mine instead of my tablet. I tend to use my Android for just about everything. Android what? Phone? Tablet? Other? He's got one of these, a (learning) Android robot. It's pretty kooky watching it drive a car. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DgA...ature=youtu.be That explains why he uses it for just about everything. :-) Now that you know my story. here is the info on my wife https://www.iwanttobepaint.com/ |
#155
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Dell computer with no input
Char Jackson
Fri, 01 Dec 2017 05:17:48 GMT in alt.windows7.general, wrote: [snip] As for the media types I trust most, it's hard drives, hands down. Flash drives are a close second and optical media don't even make the list. I'm obviously different and very old school.. I don't trust my hard disks first and foremost, nopers.. I don't fully trust my usb sticks on their own either. I trust multiple backups on more than one type of media the most. File this, I guess, under the heading of We're All Different. I'm surprised nobody so far has mentioned bitrot when it comes to optical media. And, it's not restricted to burned discs, either. Various commercial audio cds have been known to suffer from it. And, theres' no going back on that. Once it begins to take hold, some data has already been lost. It's a race to see what/if any you can salvage from it. Sorry for my very late reply to this old thread. -- To prevent yourself from being a victim of cyber stalking, it's highly recommended you visit he https://tekrider.net/pages/david-brooks-stalker.php ================================================== = Back Up My Hard Drive? I Can't Find The Reverse Switch! |
#156
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Dell computer with no input
"Mayayana"
news alt.windows7.general, wrote: "Char Jackson" wrote | True, but I weigh that against the enormous inconvenience of | optical media. CD-Rs are completely out of the question for data | storage, I hope you'll agree, but even single layer DVD's with | their ~4.5GB storage are a non-starter for me. That doesn't even | hold a movie Do you want to store data or movies? 10,000 docs or 1 full length movie? Those are different uses. I easily get all of my time-sensitive backup onto a DVD. Things that don't change, like software installers, video, photos, etc, go on DVDs and a backup hard disk. Dual layer DVDs aren't that expensive these days. 8.5 gigs, raw. You keep talking about what a tremendous hassle DVDs are, yet you haven't used a CD/DVD for 13 years! I still use them myself. Mostly single layer, but I also use dual layer from time to time. -- To prevent yourself from being a victim of cyber stalking, it's highly recommended you visit he https://tekrider.net/pages/david-brooks-stalker.php ================================================== = From the Department of Redundancy Department |
#157
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Dell computer with no input
"J. P. Gilliver (John)"
Sat, 02 Dec 2017 03:05:15 GMT in alt.windows7.general, wrote: On the "we're all different" theme: In message , Char Jackson writes: [] True, but I weigh that against the enormous inconvenience of optical media. CD-Rs are completely out of the question for data storage, I hope you'll agree, but even single layer DVD's with their ~4.5GB storage are a non-starter for me. That doesn't even hold a movie unless you forego the HD versions, which I'm not willing to do. Also, I don't have pockets big enough to hold discs. Least with optical you can often retrieve a lot of it Things must have really changed since I exited the stage. I've never, not once, heard of a case where you could retrieve part of a damaged disc. It has always been all or nothing, in my experience. It ought to be possible in theory, just as with magnetic discs. It's possible in practice. Optical doesn't typically lose it all at once, short of a microwaving or severe creeping bitrot death. Commercial optical media can also suffer from the death of bitrot. I have an ancient original metallica cd that succumbed to it. Essentially, due to manufacturing flaws, air was eventually allowed to access the area where data is actually stored, between the two thin pieces of plastic. Once exposed to air, the material breaks down taking whatever was stored on it along with it. [snip] I've never had a flash drive fail on me, so I guess that's something I can look forward to happening someday. When it happens, it won't matter because everything on a flash drive also lives somewhere else. (Famous last words) I've had them fail - and when they do, it's nearly always been sudden and total. More often than not, yes. Even if some data is still present somewhere on the memory chip itself, you have no viable means of pulling it. The main problem with internal (or "always on") drives is not electronic or magnetic failure (though I guess being always on increases the chance of those), it's the danger of corruption - either user mistake, or ransomware or similar (OK, some very holier-than-thou types would say ransomware and similar are user error too, but YKWIM). Excluding SSD types, the mechanical components do fail due to wear and tear. (Wow, what do you handle - HD movies for the whole family? The 250G drive on my main machine still has plenty of space, so my backup 1T one [external and disconnected except at backup time, but a 3.5" one] has multiple backups on it. We certainly are different in that respect!) I'd run out of room in a semi short period of time if I was restricted to a single 250gig drive. It wouldn't even hold some of my backups. -- To prevent yourself from being a victim of cyber stalking, it's highly recommended you visit he https://tekrider.net/pages/david-brooks-stalker.php ================================================== = 'When there's a will, I want to be in it!' |
#158
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Dell computer with no input
Char Jackson
Sat, 02 Dec 2017 05:13:10 GMT in alt.windows7.general, wrote: On Sat, 2 Dec 2017 03:05:15 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote: On the "we're all different" theme: In message , Char Jackson writes: [] True, but I weigh that against the enormous inconvenience of optical media. CD-Rs are completely out of the question for data storage, I hope you'll agree, but even single layer DVD's with their ~4.5GB storage are a non-starter for me. That doesn't even hold a movie unless you forego the HD versions, which I'm not willing to do. Also, I don't have pockets big enough to hold discs. Least with optical you can often retrieve a lot of it Things must have really changed since I exited the stage. I've never, not once, heard of a case where you could retrieve part of a damaged disc. It has always been all or nothing, in my experience. It ought to be possible in theory, just as with magnetic discs. AFAIK, if the TOC is damaged or corrupt, the disc is toast. Nope. That's actually a copy protection 'trick' once deployed on commercial audio cds for a period of time. You can still get the data off the disc. I've ripped more than one copy protected audio cd that intentionally corrupted the toc so a computer drive would have problems with it, but a normal audio only cd player wouldn't. Yes, there's a bit of a difference between how your computers optical drives treat inserted media vs that of your old audio cd player. And various pressing plants at the request/demand of some record labels took full advantage of it. The disc would play just fine in your normal cd player, but, would give your computer fits and in some cases, your car stereo as well. And with some macs, because they didn't have a physical eject button (or the pinhole manual override) would get 'stuck' in the drive. I don't personally consider internal drives to be at significant risk. I'm going to need some really bad experiences before I change my mind. I think external drives are at a much higher risk. I know most folks here won't agree with that, but that's what my experience has shown me. I recently had one of my linux machines go down on me, the 500gb wd drive developed bad sectors on the super block of all places. That machine is back online now, but it was a real ****er recovering data from the drive. Luckily, there wasn't anything on it that I didn't have stored in multiple other locations, but I was surprised that it failed in the manner in which it did and what a bitch it was to get anything from it as a result. Even the backup superblock wasn't any help. Oh, and I got no advanced warning of any kind that there was a problem with the drive. It was fine one day, being replaced the next. I found out the computer had a problem when I tried to access it as I normally do from another one, no response. Which was unusual as my machines tend to be very stable critters. So I went to the box itself and wiggled the mouse, no response but I noticed the HD light was solid. Waited a few minutes, couldn't get a response via keyboard or mouse so opted for reset button. That's when I got an education in how linux does if the boot region of the hard disk is physically damaged. Booting off of usb stick got me back to a console prompt so I could do some investigating and that's when I discovered I had a few bad blocks (4 total on the entire drive... sigh) and the superblock was affected in a most bad way. As in, destroyed. Which is very very bad for Linux. All that being said, that's the first HD failure I've experienced in atleast five years. The few I suffered previously I knew in advance by the sounds of the drive, smart failure warnings, or, checking on the drives internal memory of bad/remapped sectors that the drive was going south, but, I had time to get my stuff before it did. In this particular case, no warning. -- To prevent yourself from being a victim of cyber stalking, it's highly recommended you visit he https://tekrider.net/pages/david-brooks-stalker.php ================================================== = "I was walking down fifth avenue today and I found a wallet, and I was gonna keep it, rather than return it, but I thought: well, if I lost a hundred and fifty dollars, how would I feel? And I realized I would want to be taught a lesson." -- Emo Philips |
#159
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Dell computer with no input
"J. P. Gilliver (John)"
news alt.windows7.general, wrote: [snip] I don't personally consider internal drives to be at significant risk. You've obviously never had an aggressive virus. (Nor have I, but I do read about them!) In the sense of an aggressive virus, what difference does external that's connected and online vs internal make? If the virus is well written, it'll wait until you connect writable external media again anyhow. Ransomware on the other hand is a seperate issue. I don't have experience of external ones in cases. All my use of external drives have been using bare drives, either with a "cable" (though obviously with some electronics in it) or, more recently, a dock. The only ones I've had trouble with were ones that were giving trouble before removal from what they came out of. I've had little bad experience so far with external drives, but, I don't run them 24/7 either. I use them for getting data or putting data on them and then they're powered off and placed back into storage. As, well, if something were to happen from a malware/security break standpoint and the drive was still online to the machine that suffered the attack, it's data is up for grabs (or worse) too. Being an external drive in the physical sense doesn't matter in that case. -- To prevent yourself from being a victim of cyber stalking, it's highly recommended you visit he https://tekrider.net/pages/david-brooks-stalker.php ================================================== = This is just a hobby. Pefection is not required. Fun is. |
#160
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Dell computer with no input
"Mayayana"
news alt.windows7.general, wrote: And you pay what for your 64 GB stick?.... $40? $50? For large-scale storage disks are not the solution. But I could write 16 DVDs for about $5. Not a bad backup option. That seems a bit expensive. I bought two sandisk cruzer 32gb sticks at Walmart less than two weeks ago. They were priced for $6 on the shelve so I originally only picked up one. But when it was rungup, it came up with a $3 price tag. So I happily bought two. I would have purchased more, but, they only had two left.. so... I've seen Gorilla drives for less than $30 for a 64gig one and I'd happily pay it. I have two 16gb versions of the same and I've been very pleased with them. They have fast access times and are well built and quite sturdy. Pricing from a local store, not online. Online is likely even cheaper. 24.95 from amazon, if you don't opt for the usb 3 version. -- To prevent yourself from being a victim of cyber stalking, it's highly recommended you visit he https://tekrider.net/pages/david-brooks-stalker.php ================================================== = Hey! This is a morgue, not an amusement park! |
#161
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Dell computer with no input
"Mayayana"
news alt.windows7.general, wrote: "Nil" wrote | I'm surprised that so many people say that. I've | *never* tried an old CD/DVD that I couldn't read. Last | week I was backing up email to a database, going | back 10 years. All the disks were fine. | | Me, too. I have hundreds of CDRs and DVDRs and I could probably | count on one hand the number of them that have gone bad... and | usually that's because of physical damaged caused by me. I'm sure | I've had proportionally more hard disks go bad. This got me to thinking. I decided to try my oldest USB stick. Macally 256 MB. I'm not sure how old it is. Probably 10 years. Maybe more. It doesn't show up at all. The system doesn't see it. All these years it's just been sitting on a shelf over my desk, with the cap on. That's my hesitancy about USB sticks and hard disks. Magnetic storage. I don't really understand how it works, but it seems that it has to be less durable than grooves in plastic. And maybe it's susceptible to magnetic fields? I don't know. The USB stick, depending on the actual ram chip is also subject to another form of bitrot. And, due to the way in which magnetic media works, it can lose data over time, without you actually having to take an active role in it. The magnetism effect isn't forever and does wear off over time, especially if the drive isn't used. As a result, whatever data was stored in various spots that have already lost their signal, is gone. You can see this best with floppy disks though. Over time, years in some cases depending on manufacturer, your data would slowly disappear. As the mangetically stored data wasn't exactly stored in a permanent way. -- To prevent yourself from being a victim of cyber stalking, it's highly recommended you visit he https://tekrider.net/pages/david-brooks-stalker.php ================================================== = I fed some lemon to my cat and now I have a sour puss. |
#162
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Dell computer with no input
Char Jackson
Fri, 01 Dec 2017 16:18:56 GMT in alt.windows7.general, wrote: On Fri, 1 Dec 2017 10:37:37 -0500, Wolf K wrote: On 2017-12-01 09:29, Mayayana wrote: That's my hesitancy about USB sticks and hard disks. Magnetic storage. I don't really understand how it works, but it seems that it has to be less durable than grooves in plastic. And maybe it's susceptible to magnetic fields? I don't know. Cosmic rays? The Earth's magnetic field is strong enough to degrade magnetic storage over time. That's one reason VHS/Beta tapes become unusable. Mayayana mentioned grooves in plastic within the context of backing up data to DVD. Obviously, there are no grooves... ;-) No, but, there are small pits when the laser burns the disc. [g] And, if air is ever allowed access to the material where your data is actually stored, sandwiched between those two layers of plastic that make the cd/dvd, bitrot will take hold and eat your data over time. -- To prevent yourself from being a victim of cyber stalking, it's highly recommended you visit he https://tekrider.net/pages/david-brooks-stalker.php ================================================== = The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new discoveries, is not 'Eureka!' (I found it!) but 'That's ****ed!' |
#163
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Dell computer with no input
"Mayayana"
news alt.windows7.general, wrote: "Char Jackson" wrote | Mayayana mentioned grooves in plastic within the context of | backing up data to DVD. Obviously, there are no grooves... ;-) | My understanding is that the writer cuts grooves at various depths underneath the surface as a way to record data. Is that wrong? In any case, it cuts some kind of marks in plastic. It's not just magnetic storage. It's not cutting grooves. It's pitting. And it's not cutting the plastic. It's making these marks on the media sandwiched between the two layers of plastic; one on the top, the other on the bottom. -- To prevent yourself from being a victim of cyber stalking, it's highly recommended you visit he https://tekrider.net/pages/david-brooks-stalker.php ================================================== = The world record for a talking bird is 1728 words by a budgerigar named Puck, having the same vocabulary as an estate agent. |
#164
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Dell computer with no input
Paul news
Dec 2017 17:10:28 GMT in alt.windows7.general, wrote:
For example, the Verbatims I used to get here were "Ritek". There is "Ritek" and "Taiyo Yuden", as two examples of decent actual manufacturers. Ritek is a great manufacturer. I've been very pleased with actual ritek discs. So much so, I converted a former employer to purchase actual ritek labeled spindles for sale and use in the shop. I'm also a fan of verbatim, and I've been what you might call loyal to them since before my teenage years. There floppies tended to keep my data better than memorex, 3m, etc. I agree that imgburn is a fantastic little program. -- To prevent yourself from being a victim of cyber stalking, it's highly recommended you visit he https://tekrider.net/pages/david-brooks-stalker.php ================================================== = Every morning is the dawn of a new error... |
#165
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Dell computer with no input
Mayayana wrote:
"Char Jackson" wrote | Mayayana mentioned grooves in plastic within the context of backing up | data to DVD. Obviously, there are no grooves... ;-) | My understanding is that the writer cuts grooves at various depths underneath the surface as a way to record data. Is that wrong? In any case, it cuts some kind of marks in plastic. It's not just magnetic storage. There is one web site, a really old one, with an authoritative description of all of the technical details on optical media formats. You shouldn't get your ideas from us without reading that first. The disc has a spiral pattern on it. It has two possible encodings. The optical head uses the spiral pattern with encoding, for "servo", to move the arm in such a way that the player can track a spiral path. Of the two encodings, one is technically superior. Although both DVD formats are still for sale at the store, and few people seem to know the difference. (Even I don't remember which is the "good one" :-) I have to look it up.) https://www.pctechguide.com/dvd/dvd-rw (picture of wobble groove - schematic, not actual) On DVDRAM discs, the pattern is concentric circles. And a DVDRAM works like a hard drive in a sense. Originally, optical devices needed long lead-in and lead-out sequences when writing. But a variety of modern things with names like "burn-proof" make it possible to write, even when the HDD source is not delivering data in time for the write head. That means there is some way to splice the write, without ruining it. Many years ago, we used to make "coasters", before there was Burn-proof, because any little data burp (failure to deliver data in time) would cause the disc to get a bad spot. That's fixed now. Optical media uses pits. Although there's going to be a difference between pressed and burned media. It's possible these are pressed, but I don't know that for sure. https://mybroadband.co.za/news/wp-co...en-Krasnow.jpg And you can find FAQs. http://www.cdrfaq.org/faq02.html#S2-38 recorded CD The organic dye or phase-change film changes state in a way that affects how light is reflected pressed CD The depth of the pit is chosen to cause a 1/2 phase difference in the reflected light. If the pit were shallower or deeper, the effect would be lost https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wobble_frequency https://www.myce.com/article/Why-DVD...to-DVD-RW-203/ Pre-pits versus ADIP Conclusion During my study of rewritable DVD formats it seemed very clear to me that DVD-R(W) standard was not as well designed as DVD+R(W) There's info out there. Paul |
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