OT Internet Access

OldGuy wrote:
In my area I have a choice of AT&T DSL or Time Warner (TWC).
I now have AT&T with a download rate max of about 200KBps.
TWC rates there speed in Mbps.
It TWC has a 50Mbps rate, what is that in KBps real data speed?
I do not think FIOS is available here.

I have ATT copper pair 6 Mbps DSL.
I typically get about 5.0 to 5.5 Mbps down and 0.63 up.
6 Mbps is all I need for online games. I don't have or want a TV.
Phone is DSL analog. Internet is $50 per month, phone is $50 per month.
I need analog phone line for scada stuff.
Modems only last about a year. This year's modem is a Zoom ADSL X7N.

U-Verse is also copper pair but 18 Mbps. It does not have
analog phone but does have Voip phone and TV. Totally unneeded.
U-Verse requires an ATT modem.

I had cable but found that (at that time about 5 years ago)
the 20 Mbps was shared by many people in the neighborhood
giving a real number of about 1.5 Mbps when everyone was online
in the eve.

I would be getting only internet (no TV as TV over the air is just
great). And internet TV is fine too.

But what about phone service? I would want to disconnect my AT&T phone
and DSL. I have a cell phone.
Would a TWC (buy my own) modem allow phone?
Or do I use some service through my PC or laptop?
Any suggetion on a version 3 cable modem?

Please help me understand.
TIA

Ghostrider wrote:

As stated by Philo, the choice of service depends on one's need. But I
will also add that DSL might not be as stable as cable. DSL's capability
will vary, depending on the condition of the telephone line and outside
environmental conditions impacting on what is essentially an unshielded
cable. I have monitored a DSL connection that can fluctuate from a low
of around 300 kBps to a high of around 1.8 MBps, typically averaging at
around 800 kBps. OTOH, TWC cable at this same location remained stable
at around 15.6 MBps with minor fluctuations. Testing was done using
www.speedtest.net.

You need to call your TELCO then, because DSL speeds are guaranteed. I
have not had to deal with line issues since the days when people would
call bitching they were not getting 56K from their analog modems. First
I would have to explain they would never get 56K since 52K is the limit
on perfect (analog) lines. Then I would go into all the ways to correct
line quality that they could do on "their side". I finally made a web
page and put it up on our company's site (the ISP) so I wouldn't have to
repeat it every time.

Cable speeds can fluctuate on peak usage times due to more of the
neighbors using the local node. With most cable companies now upgraded to
better equipment and more bandwidth allocated to the node, it rarely
happens - and can be easily fixed if a constant issue for that node.




--

They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety,
deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Ben Franklin

"G. Morgan" wrote in message ...
Ghostrider wrote:

As stated by Philo, the choice of service depends on one's need. But I
will also add that DSL might not be as stable as cable. DSL's capability
will vary, depending on the condition of the telephone line and outside
environmental conditions impacting on what is essentially an unshielded
cable. I have monitored a DSL connection that can fluctuate from a low
of around 300 kBps to a high of around 1.8 MBps, typically averaging at
around 800 kBps. OTOH, TWC cable at this same location remained stable
at around 15.6 MBps with minor fluctuations. Testing was done using
www.speedtest.net.

You need to call your TELCO then, because DSL speeds are guaranteed. I
have not had to deal with line issues since the days when people would
call bitching they were not getting 56K from their analog modems. First
I would have to explain they would never get 56K since 52K is the limit
on perfect (analog) lines. Then I would go into all the ways to correct
line quality that they could do on "their side". I finally made a web
page and put it up on our company's site (the ISP) so I wouldn't have to
repeat it every time.

Cable speeds can fluctuate on peak usage times due to more of the
neighbors using the local node. With most cable companies now upgraded to
better equipment and more bandwidth allocated to the node, it rarely
happens - and can be easily fixed if a constant issue for that node.


100% Right

On 12/30/2013, mick posted:
But don't forget your gallons are bigger than ours - and size
matters :-)

So they are, but thats still $8.75 US gallon. You get short changed
on beer as well, thank goodness we have bigger pints :-)

Not just the size - the flavor is noticeably better, as I recall
draught beer in Englsh pubs (it's been too long...).

--
Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)

On 12/30/2013 3:27 PM, Ghostrider wrote:
On 12/30/2013 10:42 AM, OldGuy wrote:
In my area I have a choice of AT&T DSL or Time Warner (TWC).
I now have AT&T with a download rate max of about 200KBps.
TWC rates there speed in Mbps.
It TWC has a 50Mbps rate, what is that in KBps real data speed?
I do not think FIOS is available here.

I would be getting only internet (no TV as TV over the air is just
great). And internet TV is fine too.

But what about phone service? I would want to disconnect my AT&T phone
and DSL. I have a cell phone.
Would a TWC (buy my own) modem allow phone?
Or do I use some service through my PC or laptop?
Any suggetion on a version 3 cable modem?

Please help me understand.
TIA



--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ---

As stated by Philo, the choice of service depends on one's need. But I
will also add that DSL might not be as stable as cable. DSL's capability
will vary, depending on the condition of the telephone line and outside
environmental conditions impacting on what is essentially an unshielded
cable. I have monitored a DSL connection that can fluctuate from a low
of around 300 kBps to a high of around 1.8 MBps, typically averaging at
around 800 kBps. OTOH, TWC cable at this same location remained stable
at around 15.6 MBps with minor fluctuations. Testing was done using
www.speedtest.net.

GR

The ADSL doesn't vary nearly as much, if the Telco puts
a "remote" in your neighborhood. That cuts the length of
the copper run, reduces crosstalk and noise. The path from
the remote to the CO is over fiber. Leaving a shorter
path from the remote to your house, over copper.

Since they put a remote in my neighborhood, I can have
ADSL2+ or VDSL. The difference being, with VDSL I end up
with a rental modem bolted to the garage wall. Whereas with
ADSL2+, I can use my own modem, and put it in the computer room.

People in rural areas, still get the old design, with up to
18,000 feet of copper. So not all parts of the network, use
the same design. The Telco deploys remotes, where they can make
the money from them.

Paul

On 12/30/2013 10:42 AM, OldGuy wrote:
In my area I have a choice of AT&T DSL or Time Warner (TWC).
I now have AT&T with a download rate max of about 200KBps.
TWC rates there speed in Mbps.
It TWC has a 50Mbps rate, what is that in KBps real data speed?
I do not think FIOS is available here.

I would be getting only internet (no TV as TV over the air is just
great). And internet TV is fine too.

But what about phone service? I would want to disconnect my AT&T phone
and DSL. I have a cell phone.
Would a TWC (buy my own) modem allow phone?
Or do I use some service through my PC or laptop?
Any suggetion on a version 3 cable modem?

Please help me understand.
TIA

I have AT&T for land-line phone service, TWC for TV and Internet
service, and Southern California Edison for electricity. Because of the
unreliability of Edison, I will not give up AT&T phone service. Too
often, Edison's service fails, leaving us without electricity from a few
minutes to many hours. This can happen any time of the year and is not
related to weather. When Edison fails, the cable service from TWC --
powered by Edison -- also fails, including any voice-over-Internet
protocol (VoIP) phone service through TWC. Of course, an Internet
connection becomes useless when I have no electricity for my PC. (Local
cell phone towers are also powered by Edison. Thus, cell phone service
dies with Edison.) On the other hand, AT&T powers its own land-line
phone service. When Edison fails, I can use AT&T to call Edison and
report the failure.

When we do have electricity, I get over 16 Mbps downloading and 1.1 Mbps
uploading with TWC. It costs me over $100US for basic TV and Internet
(no phone).

--
David E. Ross
http://www.rossde.com/

Where does your elected official stand? Which
politicians refuse to tell us where they stand?
See the non-partisan Project Vote Smart at
http://votesmart.org/.

On 12/30/2013 9:04 PM, Paul in Houston TX wrote:
OldGuy wrote:
Modems only last about a year. This year's modem is a Zoom ADSL X7N.


Uh, new modems may be announced every year or so, but the life
expectancy of a modem is certainly more than a year. I've had my
present MotoSB51xx since Aug'08, and the previous MotoSB42xx worked for
~5 years before it died (and was replaced with the SB51xx).
--
Cheers, Bob

On Mon, 30 Dec 2013 20:06:28 -0800, Gene E. Bloch
wrote:

On 12/30/2013, mick posted:
But don't forget your gallons are bigger than ours - and size
matters :-)

So they are, but thats still $8.75 US gallon. You get short changed
on beer as well, thank goodness we have bigger pints :-)

Not just the size - the flavor is noticeably better,


I'm not a big beer drinker, but I agree. I think British beer is the
best in the world, and US beer is among the worst.

OldGuy wrote in
:

In my area I have a choice of AT&T DSL or Time Warner (TWC).
I now have AT&T with a download rate max of about 200KBps.
TWC rates there speed in Mbps.
It TWC has a 50Mbps rate, what is that in KBps real data speed?
I do not think FIOS is available here.

I would be getting only internet (no TV as TV over the air is just
great). And internet TV is fine too.

But what about phone service? I would want to disconnect my AT&T
phone and DSL. I have a cell phone.
Would a TWC (buy my own) modem allow phone?
Or do I use some service through my PC or laptop?
Any suggetion on a version 3 cable modem?

Please help me understand.
TIA

I have TWC internet, 20Mbps, with my own modem (Motorola SB6121). I
ported my landline to Ooma for VOIP telephone. Works great, with more
speed and features, and less cost, than my old DSL/landline set-up.

Dee

On 12/31/2013 09:15 AM, Ken Blake wrote:
snip


I'm not a big beer drinker, but I agree. I think British beer is the
best in the world, and US beer is among the worst.



I quit drinking completely about 20 years ago but have to say my
preference was the German beer. I had been stationed there in 1970/71 so
got to sample the stuff that came from local breweries that were too
small to have had it exported to the US.

As to American beer, it's just made for mass consumption, not for savoring.

When I say KBps it is bytes per second at 200 KBps.
This is simply verified by seeing the file data bytes download size in
bytes and the time it takes to download giving bytes per second, not
bits.

If it was bits per second at 200 it would be very sloooow.

Anyway you are missing the point.
When stated as Mbps by sone service such as TWC that is a bit rate of
ALL transerered bits that includes the data and overhead.

When I see KBps on my PC that excludes the overhead and is only the
data.

So the conversion is not 8x.



--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ---

On Mon, 30 Dec 2013 12:24:46 -0800, OldGuy wrote:


Every PC here talks in KBps so Mbps has no meaning to me.

Then get out your calculator and convert it.

1000K = 1M and 8b = 1B.

Or just pop the numbers into Google. Sometimes people forget that Google is
a fancy calculator.

https://www.google.com/search?q=conv...0+kbps+to+mbps


--

Char Jackson

On Tue, 31 Dec 2013 08:15:15 -0700, Ken Blake wrote:

On Mon, 30 Dec 2013 20:06:28 -0800, Gene E. Bloch
wrote:

On 12/30/2013, mick posted:
But don't forget your gallons are bigger than ours - and size
matters :-)

So they are, but thats still $8.75 US gallon. You get short changed
on beer as well, thank goodness we have bigger pints :-)

Not just the size - the flavor is noticeably better,


I'm not a big beer drinker, but I agree. I think British beer is the
best in the world, and US beer is among the worst.

Since we're discussing beer, I've only tried a few British beers and didn't
like any of them. They were exports, though, and sometimes that makes a
difference. My favorite beers are German, hands down. (Stationed in the
military over there for 8 years.) Among my least favorite are American
beers. It's just one of the things we don't do well here.

--

Char Jackson

OldGuy wrote:
When I say KBps it is bytes per second at 200 KBps.
This is simply verified by seeing the file data bytes download size in
bytes and the time it takes to download giving bytes per second, not bits.

If it was bits per second at 200 it would be very sloooow.

Anyway you are missing the point.
When stated as Mbps by sone service such as TWC that is a bit rate of
ALL transerered bits that includes the data and overhead.

When I see KBps on my PC that excludes the overhead and is only the data.

So the conversion is not 8x.

There are many nuances to this issue.

K for Kilo can mean 1000 or sometimes 2^10 or 1024
M for mega can mean 1000x1000 or sometimes 2^20 or 1.05x as much
bit rate can mean net bit rate or gross bit rate, throughput or goodput

BUT

For practical purposes, what matters in this context of comparing cable
vs DSL for you personally in your area:

- what kind of numbers net or gross can you expect to achieve in your
location according to the DSL or cable provider's expectations
- what kind of numbers do you actually achieve in your location based
on real world experience
- naturally translating those numbers to a common base of whichever
kind of K or M of whichever size b bit or B byte you shoose


--
Mike Easter

Hi, OldGuy.

When I see KBps on my PC that excludes the overhead and is only the data.

I've been watching this thread and wondering why nobody mentioned the
"overhead" yet. Unless this has changed since I first learned it about 25
years ago, each 8-bit byte is preceded by a single "start bit" and followed
by a single "stop bit", allowing the the receiving modem to distinguish just
where each byte begins and ends. So...

It takes 10 bytes to transmit each 8-bit byte: Start bit; 8 data bits; stop
bit = 10 bits

So it takes 1000 bits to transmit 100 bytes. The 200 start/stop bits are
discarded by the receiver, leaving the 800 bits of actual data making the
100 bytes for 100 characters.

So 1000 Kbps = 100 KBps, not 125 KBps. And it takes 1200 Kbps to send 1000
KBps.

Or did that arithmetic change while I wasn't paying attention?

RC
--
R. C. White, CPA
San Marcos, TX

Microsoft Windows MVP (2002-2010)
Windows Live Mail 2012 (Build 16.4.3508.0205) in Win8.1 Pro


"OldGuy" wrote in message ...

When I say KBps it is bytes per second at 200 KBps.
This is simply verified by seeing the file data bytes download size in
bytes and the time it takes to download giving bytes per second, not
bits.

If it was bits per second at 200 it would be very sloooow.

Anyway you are missing the point.
When stated as Mbps by sone service such as TWC that is a bit rate of
ALL transerered bits that includes the data and overhead.

When I see KBps on my PC that excludes the overhead and is only the
data.

So the conversion is not 8x.