No USB3 after Cloning

Al Drake wrote:
On 7/2/2015 9:04 PM, Paul wrote:
Al Drake wrote:

I don't see Disk Management in the Control Panel but I get there
through Computer Management. I see only two drives. The System drive
and the M2. Drive connected to the motherboard.

When I use Diskpart I also see only those two drives. The only proof
I have the USB drives connect is on BIOS.

At this point, I'm guessing it's not a UniqueID problem.

If it was a signature collision, there should be a third black
bar in Disk Management, with an offline status.

If it doesn't show up at all, that doesn't make sense with
respect to the "USBSTOR" status in your other posting.
Surely, if it shows USBSTOR, the process of discovering
the disk drive "name" should be able to go forward.

If you look in Device Manager (devmgmt.msc), do you
only see two "Drive" entries there as well ?

I don't really know at this point, what other
utility I can throw at it, that will wring more
info from the hardware.

On Linux, you can look at "dmesg" output, as a means
to gain hints about setup steps that didn't work out
so well. For example, when my "SoundBlaster" card didn't
show up, I could see a complaint about some "checksum"
being wrong. So I could then put two and two together,
as to why the card was not detected. While Windows generates
some amount of "stuff" for Event Viewer, it isn't nearly as
detailed as the Linux stuff can be.

I would focus on Device Manager for the moment, to make
more sense of this. Because, with only the two rows
in Disk Management, we're not at the point where the
OS can entertain a "collision" on signatures.

And you're right, in that I don't know of a way to
select a disk that isn't there :-(

Paul

The latest things I've tried.

A fresh clone using XXClone
Reinstalling the UBS3 drivers from the Gigabyte disk. No help.
Plugging in the mouse and keyboard into USB3 posts. The both work as
before.
I attached a USB2 Hub to one of the USB 2 ports and connect all my USB3
drives.
I can see all devices in BIOS. I make sure I shut off the PSU every
time I attach anything.
I boot into Windows and see a message that my devices will work faster
if I use a faster connection.

I still see no external devices. None of my several USBs drives in USB3
enclosures and no USB2 Sandisk Cruzer Flash Drive. (Maybe it's a USB3, I
don't remember.)

I also tried plugging the flash drive into remaining USB2 port but it
doesn't see it there either.

If I look in Device Manager I see all the non working devices show
"This device cannot start (code10)

I searched Google and YouTube but all I see are the same old methods of
uninstalling and rebooting. That has never worked in this matter.

I did see a YouTube video showing someone editing the registry but
there was no sound and the whole thing was to fast to learn from one
viewing. Now it seems I need to learn more about any registry fix
knowing I need to be very careful. Maybe I can take a good look at the
registry in the good OS on the Samsung and compare it with the defective
Crucial clone.

The code 10 page is here.

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/943104

MATS even has a fixit in there. And I thought the MATS
page was dead. You could try this for fun.

http://support.microsoft.com/mats/ha...evice_problems

The puzzling part for me, is how cloning a drive is doing
this, where the original drive still works, but the clone
does not.

I trust you boot the clone by itself, and you boot the original
by itself when testing ? For the first boot operation after cloning,
you boot it by itself, not with the other disks present.

*******

If I thought you were doing the boot testing under controlled
conditions, I'd recommend cloning sector-by-sector. I can't
imagine how a driver keeps stuff outside the file system, but that's
how I'd test for it.

*******

Some days, I feel like I'm spinning in circles...
Probably an inner ear problem... :-)

There is an Intel USB3 driver here, which refers to "hub".

https://downloadcenter.intel.com/dow...Chipset-Family

I got the idea from this motherboard. It has both a Renesas and
an Intel driver. I would have thought the Intel driver would
be handled by the INFINST Intel chipset driver ???

http://www.msi.com/support/mb/Z77_MP...iver&Win7%2064

Type Others Drivers Title Intel USB 3.0 Driver
OS Win7 64, Win7 32 Language English
Release Date 2013-04-10 Version 1.0.8.251
File Size 5.19 MB File Download

Type Others Drivers Title Renesas USB3.0 Driver (3.xx)
OS Win7 64, Win7 32, XP 64, XP 32 Language English
Release Date 2013-10-21 Version 3.0.23.0
File Size 10.09 MB File Download

The Renesas driver is for a four port controller, rather than a hub.
But the Intel driver might be of interest.

You could try installing the Intel driver in response
to the Code 10, but something tells me that's not going
to help. There must already have been a driver, because
the setup worked with the old disk at the helm.

Paul

On 7/3/2015 10:14 AM, Paul wrote:
Al Drake wrote:
On 7/2/2015 9:04 PM, Paul wrote:
Al Drake wrote:

I don't see Disk Management in the Control Panel but I get there
through Computer Management. I see only two drives. The System drive
and the M2. Drive connected to the motherboard.

When I use Diskpart I also see only those two drives. The only proof
I have the USB drives connect is on BIOS.

At this point, I'm guessing it's not a UniqueID problem.

If it was a signature collision, there should be a third black
bar in Disk Management, with an offline status.

If it doesn't show up at all, that doesn't make sense with
respect to the "USBSTOR" status in your other posting.
Surely, if it shows USBSTOR, the process of discovering
the disk drive "name" should be able to go forward.

If you look in Device Manager (devmgmt.msc), do you
only see two "Drive" entries there as well ?

I don't really know at this point, what other
utility I can throw at it, that will wring more
info from the hardware.

On Linux, you can look at "dmesg" output, as a means
to gain hints about setup steps that didn't work out
so well. For example, when my "SoundBlaster" card didn't
show up, I could see a complaint about some "checksum"
being wrong. So I could then put two and two together,
as to why the card was not detected. While Windows generates
some amount of "stuff" for Event Viewer, it isn't nearly as
detailed as the Linux stuff can be.

I would focus on Device Manager for the moment, to make
more sense of this. Because, with only the two rows
in Disk Management, we're not at the point where the
OS can entertain a "collision" on signatures.

And you're right, in that I don't know of a way to
select a disk that isn't there :-(

Paul

The latest things I've tried.

A fresh clone using XXClone
Reinstalling the UBS3 drivers from the Gigabyte disk. No help.
Plugging in the mouse and keyboard into USB3 posts. The both work as
before.
I attached a USB2 Hub to one of the USB 2 ports and connect all my
USB3 drives.
I can see all devices in BIOS. I make sure I shut off the PSU every
time I attach anything.
I boot into Windows and see a message that my devices will work
faster if I use a faster connection.

I still see no external devices. None of my several USBs drives in
USB3 enclosures and no USB2 Sandisk Cruzer Flash Drive. (Maybe it's a
USB3, I don't remember.)

I also tried plugging the flash drive into remaining USB2 port but it
doesn't see it there either.

If I look in Device Manager I see all the non working devices show
"This device cannot start (code10)

I searched Google and YouTube but all I see are the same old methods
of uninstalling and rebooting. That has never worked in this matter.

I did see a YouTube video showing someone editing the registry but
there was no sound and the whole thing was to fast to learn from one
viewing. Now it seems I need to learn more about any registry fix
knowing I need to be very careful. Maybe I can take a good look at the
registry in the good OS on the Samsung and compare it with the
defective Crucial clone.

The code 10 page is here.

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/943104

MATS even has a fixit in there. And I thought the MATS
page was dead. You could try this for fun.

http://support.microsoft.com/mats/ha...evice_problems

The puzzling part for me, is how cloning a drive is doing
this, where the original drive still works, but the clone
does not.

I trust you boot the clone by itself, and you boot the original
by itself when testing ? For the first boot operation after cloning,
you boot it by itself, not with the other disks present.

*******

If I thought you were doing the boot testing under controlled
conditions, I'd recommend cloning sector-by-sector. I can't
imagine how a driver keeps stuff outside the file system, but that's
how I'd test for it.

*******

Some days, I feel like I'm spinning in circles...
Probably an inner ear problem... :-)

There is an Intel USB3 driver here, which refers to "hub".

https://downloadcenter.intel.com/dow...Chipset-Family


I got the idea from this motherboard. It has both a Renesas and
an Intel driver. I would have thought the Intel driver would
be handled by the INFINST Intel chipset driver ???

http://www.msi.com/support/mb/Z77_MP...iver&Win7%2064

Type Others Drivers Title Intel USB 3.0 Driver
OS Win7 64, Win7 32 Language English
Release Date 2013-04-10 Version 1.0.8.251
File Size 5.19 MB File Download

Type Others Drivers Title Renesas USB3.0
Driver (3.xx)
OS Win7 64, Win7 32, XP 64, XP 32 Language English
Release Date 2013-10-21 Version 3.0.23.0
File Size 10.09 MB File Download

The Renesas driver is for a four port controller, rather than a hub.
But the Intel driver might be of interest.

You could try installing the Intel driver in response
to the Code 10, but something tells me that's not going
to help. There must already have been a driver, because
the setup worked with the old disk at the helm.

Paul

Thanks for all the research and assistance. It's been quite a learning
experience to say the least. Before I get into your latest offerings I'm
going to try something different as it'll be quicker.

I looked deeper into the showing of the devices in Device Manager and
in Driver File Details I see along with the proper files something
called "SamsungRapidDiskFktr.sys"

When I boot with the Crucial SSD OS I get a warning message that I am
not using a Samsung along with other text I can't remember now. I now
have a suspicion that this Samsung driver may be the cause of all this.

I have another Samsung 850 EVO I'm going to try and my guess is this
time everything will be fine.

Al Drake wrote:
On 7/3/2015 10:14 AM, Paul wrote:
Al Drake wrote:
On 7/2/2015 9:04 PM, Paul wrote:
Al Drake wrote:

I don't see Disk Management in the Control Panel but I get there
through Computer Management. I see only two drives. The System drive
and the M2. Drive connected to the motherboard.

When I use Diskpart I also see only those two drives. The only proof
I have the USB drives connect is on BIOS.

At this point, I'm guessing it's not a UniqueID problem.

If it was a signature collision, there should be a third black
bar in Disk Management, with an offline status.

If it doesn't show up at all, that doesn't make sense with
respect to the "USBSTOR" status in your other posting.
Surely, if it shows USBSTOR, the process of discovering
the disk drive "name" should be able to go forward.

If you look in Device Manager (devmgmt.msc), do you
only see two "Drive" entries there as well ?

I don't really know at this point, what other
utility I can throw at it, that will wring more
info from the hardware.

On Linux, you can look at "dmesg" output, as a means
to gain hints about setup steps that didn't work out
so well. For example, when my "SoundBlaster" card didn't
show up, I could see a complaint about some "checksum"
being wrong. So I could then put two and two together,
as to why the card was not detected. While Windows generates
some amount of "stuff" for Event Viewer, it isn't nearly as
detailed as the Linux stuff can be.

I would focus on Device Manager for the moment, to make
more sense of this. Because, with only the two rows
in Disk Management, we're not at the point where the
OS can entertain a "collision" on signatures.

And you're right, in that I don't know of a way to
select a disk that isn't there :-(

Paul

The latest things I've tried.

A fresh clone using XXClone
Reinstalling the UBS3 drivers from the Gigabyte disk. No help.
Plugging in the mouse and keyboard into USB3 posts. The both work as
before.
I attached a USB2 Hub to one of the USB 2 ports and connect all my
USB3 drives.
I can see all devices in BIOS. I make sure I shut off the PSU every
time I attach anything.
I boot into Windows and see a message that my devices will work
faster if I use a faster connection.

I still see no external devices. None of my several USBs drives in
USB3 enclosures and no USB2 Sandisk Cruzer Flash Drive. (Maybe it's a
USB3, I don't remember.)

I also tried plugging the flash drive into remaining USB2 port but it
doesn't see it there either.

If I look in Device Manager I see all the non working devices show
"This device cannot start (code10)

I searched Google and YouTube but all I see are the same old methods
of uninstalling and rebooting. That has never worked in this matter.

I did see a YouTube video showing someone editing the registry but
there was no sound and the whole thing was to fast to learn from one
viewing. Now it seems I need to learn more about any registry fix
knowing I need to be very careful. Maybe I can take a good look at the
registry in the good OS on the Samsung and compare it with the
defective Crucial clone.

The code 10 page is here.

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/943104

MATS even has a fixit in there. And I thought the MATS
page was dead. You could try this for fun.

http://support.microsoft.com/mats/ha...evice_problems

The puzzling part for me, is how cloning a drive is doing
this, where the original drive still works, but the clone
does not.

I trust you boot the clone by itself, and you boot the original
by itself when testing ? For the first boot operation after cloning,
you boot it by itself, not with the other disks present.

*******

If I thought you were doing the boot testing under controlled
conditions, I'd recommend cloning sector-by-sector. I can't
imagine how a driver keeps stuff outside the file system, but that's
how I'd test for it.

*******

Some days, I feel like I'm spinning in circles...
Probably an inner ear problem... :-)

There is an Intel USB3 driver here, which refers to "hub".

https://downloadcenter.intel.com/dow...Chipset-Family



I got the idea from this motherboard. It has both a Renesas and
an Intel driver. I would have thought the Intel driver would
be handled by the INFINST Intel chipset driver ???

http://www.msi.com/support/mb/Z77_MP...iver&Win7%2064

Type Others Drivers Title Intel USB 3.0 Driver
OS Win7 64, Win7 32 Language English
Release Date 2013-04-10 Version 1.0.8.251
File Size 5.19 MB File Download

Type Others Drivers Title Renesas USB3.0
Driver (3.xx)
OS Win7 64, Win7 32, XP 64, XP 32 Language English
Release Date 2013-10-21 Version 3.0.23.0
File Size 10.09 MB File Download

The Renesas driver is for a four port controller, rather than a hub.
But the Intel driver might be of interest.

You could try installing the Intel driver in response
to the Code 10, but something tells me that's not going
to help. There must already have been a driver, because
the setup worked with the old disk at the helm.

Paul

Thanks for all the research and assistance. It's been quite a learning
experience to say the least. Before I get into your latest offerings I'm
going to try something different as it'll be quicker.

I looked deeper into the showing of the devices in Device Manager and
in Driver File Details I see along with the proper files something
called "SamsungRapidDiskFktr.sys"

When I boot with the Crucial SSD OS I get a warning message that I am
not using a Samsung along with other text I can't remember now. I now
have a suspicion that this Samsung driver may be the cause of all this.

I have another Samsung 850 EVO I'm going to try and my guess is this
time everything will be fine.

So it's a filter driver problem :-) I think you're headed
down the right path. See, I can't afford any hardware
exotic enough to have one of those :-)

I did see a reference to a filter driver issue
today in one of those pages. but I discounted that
as a "how is this possible" issue...

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/943104

"UpperFilters" --- SamsungRapidDiskFltr.sys ???
"LowerFilters"

Now, if I was hunting in that area, I'd be using
devcon to list all of them. But it's rather hard
to get devcon64, so I'm not even going to discuss it :-)
If devcon64 was more readily available, we could talk.
(Not the Itanium version, the actual x64 version...)

Typical ref. to Devcon...

http://social.technet.microsoft.com/...evcon-exe.aspx

And you might use

devcon64.exe stack * output.txt

to get a list of all hardware and the upper and lower
filter entries of each. Your list is stored in
output.txt file.

This one does just the optical drive. The output
is to the command prompt screen.

devcon64 stack gencdrom

and the list should be a bit shorter.

And when I say devcon64.exe, I rename them to keep them
separate. I have a devcon.exe I got from the "regular" download
page. That one is easy to get, but is useless in a 64 bit era.
When I got the 64 bit version, I renamed it to devcon64.exe,
so I wouldn't mix them up. You won't find a reference to
"downloading devcon64.exe", since it won't be named that
way. But that's how I store it on disk, and they're both
stored in the same directory.

Since you already know the name is SamsungRapidDiskFltr.sys,
it should be easy to take care of. Or so they tell me.

Paul

On 7/3/2015 12:02 PM, Paul wrote:
Al Drake wrote:
On 7/3/2015 10:14 AM, Paul wrote:
Al Drake wrote:
On 7/2/2015 9:04 PM, Paul wrote:
Al Drake wrote:

I don't see Disk Management in the Control Panel but I get there
through Computer Management. I see only two drives. The System drive
and the M2. Drive connected to the motherboard.

When I use Diskpart I also see only those two drives. The only proof
I have the USB drives connect is on BIOS.

At this point, I'm guessing it's not a UniqueID problem.

If it was a signature collision, there should be a third black
bar in Disk Management, with an offline status.

If it doesn't show up at all, that doesn't make sense with
respect to the "USBSTOR" status in your other posting.
Surely, if it shows USBSTOR, the process of discovering
the disk drive "name" should be able to go forward.

If you look in Device Manager (devmgmt.msc), do you
only see two "Drive" entries there as well ?

I don't really know at this point, what other
utility I can throw at it, that will wring more
info from the hardware.

On Linux, you can look at "dmesg" output, as a means
to gain hints about setup steps that didn't work out
so well. For example, when my "SoundBlaster" card didn't
show up, I could see a complaint about some "checksum"
being wrong. So I could then put two and two together,
as to why the card was not detected. While Windows generates
some amount of "stuff" for Event Viewer, it isn't nearly as
detailed as the Linux stuff can be.

I would focus on Device Manager for the moment, to make
more sense of this. Because, with only the two rows
in Disk Management, we're not at the point where the
OS can entertain a "collision" on signatures.

And you're right, in that I don't know of a way to
select a disk that isn't there :-(

Paul

The latest things I've tried.

A fresh clone using XXClone
Reinstalling the UBS3 drivers from the Gigabyte disk. No help.
Plugging in the mouse and keyboard into USB3 posts. The both work as
before.
I attached a USB2 Hub to one of the USB 2 ports and connect all my
USB3 drives.
I can see all devices in BIOS. I make sure I shut off the PSU every
time I attach anything.
I boot into Windows and see a message that my devices will work
faster if I use a faster connection.

I still see no external devices. None of my several USBs drives in
USB3 enclosures and no USB2 Sandisk Cruzer Flash Drive. (Maybe it's a
USB3, I don't remember.)

I also tried plugging the flash drive into remaining USB2 port but it
doesn't see it there either.

If I look in Device Manager I see all the non working devices show
"This device cannot start (code10)

I searched Google and YouTube but all I see are the same old methods
of uninstalling and rebooting. That has never worked in this matter.

I did see a YouTube video showing someone editing the registry but
there was no sound and the whole thing was to fast to learn from one
viewing. Now it seems I need to learn more about any registry fix
knowing I need to be very careful. Maybe I can take a good look at the
registry in the good OS on the Samsung and compare it with the
defective Crucial clone.

The code 10 page is here.

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/943104

MATS even has a fixit in there. And I thought the MATS
page was dead. You could try this for fun.

http://support.microsoft.com/mats/ha...evice_problems

The puzzling part for me, is how cloning a drive is doing
this, where the original drive still works, but the clone
does not.

I trust you boot the clone by itself, and you boot the original
by itself when testing ? For the first boot operation after cloning,
you boot it by itself, not with the other disks present.

*******

If I thought you were doing the boot testing under controlled
conditions, I'd recommend cloning sector-by-sector. I can't
imagine how a driver keeps stuff outside the file system, but that's
how I'd test for it.

*******

Some days, I feel like I'm spinning in circles...
Probably an inner ear problem... :-)

There is an Intel USB3 driver here, which refers to "hub".

https://downloadcenter.intel.com/dow...Chipset-Family



I got the idea from this motherboard. It has both a Renesas and
an Intel driver. I would have thought the Intel driver would
be handled by the INFINST Intel chipset driver ???

http://www.msi.com/support/mb/Z77_MP...iver&Win7%2064

Type Others Drivers Title Intel USB 3.0 Driver
OS Win7 64, Win7 32 Language English
Release Date 2013-04-10 Version 1.0.8.251
File Size 5.19 MB File Download

Type Others Drivers Title Renesas USB3.0
Driver (3.xx)
OS Win7 64, Win7 32, XP 64, XP 32 Language English
Release Date 2013-10-21 Version 3.0.23.0
File Size 10.09 MB File Download

The Renesas driver is for a four port controller, rather than a hub.
But the Intel driver might be of interest.

You could try installing the Intel driver in response
to the Code 10, but something tells me that's not going
to help. There must already have been a driver, because
the setup worked with the old disk at the helm.

Paul

Thanks for all the research and assistance. It's been quite a
learning experience to say the least. Before I get into your latest
offerings I'm going to try something different as it'll be quicker.

I looked deeper into the showing of the devices in Device Manager and
in Driver File Details I see along with the proper files something
called "SamsungRapidDiskFktr.sys"

When I boot with the Crucial SSD OS I get a warning message that I am
not using a Samsung along with other text I can't remember now. I now
have a suspicion that this Samsung driver may be the cause of all this.

I have another Samsung 850 EVO I'm going to try and my guess is this
time everything will be fine.

So it's a filter driver problem :-) I think you're headed
down the right path. See, I can't afford any hardware
exotic enough to have one of those :-)

I did see a reference to a filter driver issue
today in one of those pages. but I discounted that
as a "how is this possible" issue...

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/943104

"UpperFilters" --- SamsungRapidDiskFltr.sys ???
"LowerFilters"

Now, if I was hunting in that area, I'd be using
devcon to list all of them. But it's rather hard
to get devcon64, so I'm not even going to discuss it :-)
If devcon64 was more readily available, we could talk.
(Not the Itanium version, the actual x64 version...)

Typical ref. to Devcon...

http://social.technet.microsoft.com/...evcon-exe.aspx


And you might use

devcon64.exe stack * output.txt

to get a list of all hardware and the upper and lower
filter entries of each. Your list is stored in
output.txt file.

This one does just the optical drive. The output
is to the command prompt screen.

devcon64 stack gencdrom

and the list should be a bit shorter.

And when I say devcon64.exe, I rename them to keep them
separate. I have a devcon.exe I got from the "regular" download
page. That one is easy to get, but is useless in a 64 bit era.
When I got the 64 bit version, I renamed it to devcon64.exe,
so I wouldn't mix them up. You won't find a reference to
"downloading devcon64.exe", since it won't be named that
way. But that's how I store it on disk, and they're both
stored in the same directory.

Since you already know the name is SamsungRapidDiskFltr.sys,
it should be easy to take care of. Or so they tell me.

Paul

Problem solved.

The quick and dirty fix all along was as simple as uninstalling
Samsung Magician software.

This being found out AFTER I returned from a trip to a local B&M where
I purchased a new Samsung SSD 850 EVO for the whopping price of $239. I
had decided that I just had to know if cloning to another Samsung was
the only way, knowing all along I could get the same item for $169 online.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...500gb_2_5.html

I new I had to wait a few days for delivery and wanted this issue
solved A.S.A.P. almost at any cost. Now that I'm home and decided to try
one last time by removing Samsung Magician I find that buying another
SSD was totally unnecessary.

Now I have one more toy I can add to my collection of unneeded dust
collectors.

Live and not always learn.

Al Drake wrote:
On 7/3/2015 12:02 PM, Paul wrote:
Al Drake wrote:
On 7/3/2015 10:14 AM, Paul wrote:
Al Drake wrote:
On 7/2/2015 9:04 PM, Paul wrote:
Al Drake wrote:

I don't see Disk Management in the Control Panel but I get there
through Computer Management. I see only two drives. The System drive
and the M2. Drive connected to the motherboard.

When I use Diskpart I also see only those two drives. The only
proof
I have the USB drives connect is on BIOS.

At this point, I'm guessing it's not a UniqueID problem.

If it was a signature collision, there should be a third black
bar in Disk Management, with an offline status.

If it doesn't show up at all, that doesn't make sense with
respect to the "USBSTOR" status in your other posting.
Surely, if it shows USBSTOR, the process of discovering
the disk drive "name" should be able to go forward.

If you look in Device Manager (devmgmt.msc), do you
only see two "Drive" entries there as well ?

I don't really know at this point, what other
utility I can throw at it, that will wring more
info from the hardware.

On Linux, you can look at "dmesg" output, as a means
to gain hints about setup steps that didn't work out
so well. For example, when my "SoundBlaster" card didn't
show up, I could see a complaint about some "checksum"
being wrong. So I could then put two and two together,
as to why the card was not detected. While Windows generates
some amount of "stuff" for Event Viewer, it isn't nearly as
detailed as the Linux stuff can be.

I would focus on Device Manager for the moment, to make
more sense of this. Because, with only the two rows
in Disk Management, we're not at the point where the
OS can entertain a "collision" on signatures.

And you're right, in that I don't know of a way to
select a disk that isn't there :-(

Paul

The latest things I've tried.

A fresh clone using XXClone
Reinstalling the UBS3 drivers from the Gigabyte disk. No help.
Plugging in the mouse and keyboard into USB3 posts. The both work as
before.
I attached a USB2 Hub to one of the USB 2 ports and connect all my
USB3 drives.
I can see all devices in BIOS. I make sure I shut off the PSU every
time I attach anything.
I boot into Windows and see a message that my devices will work
faster if I use a faster connection.

I still see no external devices. None of my several USBs drives in
USB3 enclosures and no USB2 Sandisk Cruzer Flash Drive. (Maybe it's a
USB3, I don't remember.)

I also tried plugging the flash drive into remaining USB2 port but it
doesn't see it there either.

If I look in Device Manager I see all the non working devices show
"This device cannot start (code10)

I searched Google and YouTube but all I see are the same old methods
of uninstalling and rebooting. That has never worked in this matter.

I did see a YouTube video showing someone editing the registry but
there was no sound and the whole thing was to fast to learn from one
viewing. Now it seems I need to learn more about any registry fix
knowing I need to be very careful. Maybe I can take a good look at the
registry in the good OS on the Samsung and compare it with the
defective Crucial clone.

The code 10 page is here.

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/943104

MATS even has a fixit in there. And I thought the MATS
page was dead. You could try this for fun.

http://support.microsoft.com/mats/ha...evice_problems

The puzzling part for me, is how cloning a drive is doing
this, where the original drive still works, but the clone
does not.

I trust you boot the clone by itself, and you boot the original
by itself when testing ? For the first boot operation after cloning,
you boot it by itself, not with the other disks present.

*******

If I thought you were doing the boot testing under controlled
conditions, I'd recommend cloning sector-by-sector. I can't
imagine how a driver keeps stuff outside the file system, but that's
how I'd test for it.

*******

Some days, I feel like I'm spinning in circles...
Probably an inner ear problem... :-)

There is an Intel USB3 driver here, which refers to "hub".

https://downloadcenter.intel.com/dow...Chipset-Family




I got the idea from this motherboard. It has both a Renesas and
an Intel driver. I would have thought the Intel driver would
be handled by the INFINST Intel chipset driver ???

http://www.msi.com/support/mb/Z77_MP...iver&Win7%2064

Type Others Drivers Title Intel USB 3.0 Driver
OS Win7 64, Win7 32 Language English
Release Date 2013-04-10 Version 1.0.8.251
File Size 5.19 MB File Download

Type Others Drivers Title Renesas USB3.0
Driver (3.xx)
OS Win7 64, Win7 32, XP 64, XP 32 Language English
Release Date 2013-10-21 Version 3.0.23.0
File Size 10.09 MB File Download

The Renesas driver is for a four port controller, rather than a hub.
But the Intel driver might be of interest.

You could try installing the Intel driver in response
to the Code 10, but something tells me that's not going
to help. There must already have been a driver, because
the setup worked with the old disk at the helm.

Paul

Thanks for all the research and assistance. It's been quite a
learning experience to say the least. Before I get into your latest
offerings I'm going to try something different as it'll be quicker.

I looked deeper into the showing of the devices in Device Manager and
in Driver File Details I see along with the proper files something
called "SamsungRapidDiskFktr.sys"

When I boot with the Crucial SSD OS I get a warning message that I am
not using a Samsung along with other text I can't remember now. I now
have a suspicion that this Samsung driver may be the cause of all this.

I have another Samsung 850 EVO I'm going to try and my guess is this
time everything will be fine.

So it's a filter driver problem :-) I think you're headed
down the right path. See, I can't afford any hardware
exotic enough to have one of those :-)

I did see a reference to a filter driver issue
today in one of those pages. but I discounted that
as a "how is this possible" issue...

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/943104

"UpperFilters" --- SamsungRapidDiskFltr.sys ???
"LowerFilters"

Now, if I was hunting in that area, I'd be using
devcon to list all of them. But it's rather hard
to get devcon64, so I'm not even going to discuss it :-)
If devcon64 was more readily available, we could talk.
(Not the Itanium version, the actual x64 version...)

Typical ref. to Devcon...

http://social.technet.microsoft.com/...evcon-exe.aspx



And you might use

devcon64.exe stack * output.txt

to get a list of all hardware and the upper and lower
filter entries of each. Your list is stored in
output.txt file.

This one does just the optical drive. The output
is to the command prompt screen.

devcon64 stack gencdrom

and the list should be a bit shorter.

And when I say devcon64.exe, I rename them to keep them
separate. I have a devcon.exe I got from the "regular" download
page. That one is easy to get, but is useless in a 64 bit era.
When I got the 64 bit version, I renamed it to devcon64.exe,
so I wouldn't mix them up. You won't find a reference to
"downloading devcon64.exe", since it won't be named that
way. But that's how I store it on disk, and they're both
stored in the same directory.

Since you already know the name is SamsungRapidDiskFltr.sys,
it should be easy to take care of. Or so they tell me.

Paul

Problem solved.

The quick and dirty fix all along was as simple as uninstalling Samsung
Magician software.

This being found out AFTER I returned from a trip to a local B&M where
I purchased a new Samsung SSD 850 EVO for the whopping price of $239. I
had decided that I just had to know if cloning to another Samsung was
the only way, knowing all along I could get the same item for $169 online.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...500gb_2_5.html


I new I had to wait a few days for delivery and wanted this issue
solved A.S.A.P. almost at any cost. Now that I'm home and decided to try
one last time by removing Samsung Magician I find that buying another
SSD was totally unnecessary.

Now I have one more toy I can add to my collection of unneeded dust
collectors.

Live and not always learn.



I wonder why the Samsung software cannot avoid screwing
with the other hardware ? The filter driver could have
"gone transparent" and just passed the transactions of
the competing SSDs without messing with them.

At least you have your answer.

And now you have another drive for the pool, to rotate
as needed. Nothing wrong with that. I could use another
half-dozen here.

Paul

On 7/3/2015 3:23 PM, Paul wrote:
Al Drake wrote:
On 7/3/2015 12:02 PM, Paul wrote:
Al Drake wrote:
On 7/3/2015 10:14 AM, Paul wrote:
Al Drake wrote:
On 7/2/2015 9:04 PM, Paul wrote:
Al Drake wrote:

I don't see Disk Management in the Control Panel but I get there
through Computer Management. I see only two drives. The System
drive
and the M2. Drive connected to the motherboard.

When I use Diskpart I also see only those two drives. The only
proof
I have the USB drives connect is on BIOS.

At this point, I'm guessing it's not a UniqueID problem.

If it was a signature collision, there should be a third black
bar in Disk Management, with an offline status.

If it doesn't show up at all, that doesn't make sense with
respect to the "USBSTOR" status in your other posting.
Surely, if it shows USBSTOR, the process of discovering
the disk drive "name" should be able to go forward.

If you look in Device Manager (devmgmt.msc), do you
only see two "Drive" entries there as well ?

I don't really know at this point, what other
utility I can throw at it, that will wring more
info from the hardware.

On Linux, you can look at "dmesg" output, as a means
to gain hints about setup steps that didn't work out
so well. For example, when my "SoundBlaster" card didn't
show up, I could see a complaint about some "checksum"
being wrong. So I could then put two and two together,
as to why the card was not detected. While Windows generates
some amount of "stuff" for Event Viewer, it isn't nearly as
detailed as the Linux stuff can be.

I would focus on Device Manager for the moment, to make
more sense of this. Because, with only the two rows
in Disk Management, we're not at the point where the
OS can entertain a "collision" on signatures.

And you're right, in that I don't know of a way to
select a disk that isn't there :-(

Paul

The latest things I've tried.

A fresh clone using XXClone
Reinstalling the UBS3 drivers from the Gigabyte disk. No help.
Plugging in the mouse and keyboard into USB3 posts. The both work as
before.
I attached a USB2 Hub to one of the USB 2 ports and connect all my
USB3 drives.
I can see all devices in BIOS. I make sure I shut off the PSU every
time I attach anything.
I boot into Windows and see a message that my devices will work
faster if I use a faster connection.

I still see no external devices. None of my several USBs drives in
USB3 enclosures and no USB2 Sandisk Cruzer Flash Drive. (Maybe it's a
USB3, I don't remember.)

I also tried plugging the flash drive into remaining USB2 port
but it
doesn't see it there either.

If I look in Device Manager I see all the non working devices show
"This device cannot start (code10)

I searched Google and YouTube but all I see are the same old methods
of uninstalling and rebooting. That has never worked in this matter.

I did see a YouTube video showing someone editing the registry but
there was no sound and the whole thing was to fast to learn from one
viewing. Now it seems I need to learn more about any registry fix
knowing I need to be very careful. Maybe I can take a good look at
the
registry in the good OS on the Samsung and compare it with the
defective Crucial clone.

The code 10 page is here.

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/943104

MATS even has a fixit in there. And I thought the MATS
page was dead. You could try this for fun.

http://support.microsoft.com/mats/ha...evice_problems

The puzzling part for me, is how cloning a drive is doing
this, where the original drive still works, but the clone
does not.

I trust you boot the clone by itself, and you boot the original
by itself when testing ? For the first boot operation after cloning,
you boot it by itself, not with the other disks present.

*******

If I thought you were doing the boot testing under controlled
conditions, I'd recommend cloning sector-by-sector. I can't
imagine how a driver keeps stuff outside the file system, but that's
how I'd test for it.

*******

Some days, I feel like I'm spinning in circles...
Probably an inner ear problem... :-)

There is an Intel USB3 driver here, which refers to "hub".

https://downloadcenter.intel.com/dow...Chipset-Family




I got the idea from this motherboard. It has both a Renesas and
an Intel driver. I would have thought the Intel driver would
be handled by the INFINST Intel chipset driver ???

http://www.msi.com/support/mb/Z77_MP...iver&Win7%2064

Type Others Drivers Title Intel USB 3.0 Driver
OS Win7 64, Win7 32 Language English
Release Date 2013-04-10 Version 1.0.8.251
File Size 5.19 MB File Download

Type Others Drivers Title Renesas USB3.0
Driver (3.xx)
OS Win7 64, Win7 32, XP 64, XP 32 Language English
Release Date 2013-10-21 Version 3.0.23.0
File Size 10.09 MB File Download

The Renesas driver is for a four port controller, rather than a hub.
But the Intel driver might be of interest.

You could try installing the Intel driver in response
to the Code 10, but something tells me that's not going
to help. There must already have been a driver, because
the setup worked with the old disk at the helm.

Paul

Thanks for all the research and assistance. It's been quite a
learning experience to say the least. Before I get into your latest
offerings I'm going to try something different as it'll be quicker.

I looked deeper into the showing of the devices in Device Manager and
in Driver File Details I see along with the proper files something
called "SamsungRapidDiskFktr.sys"

When I boot with the Crucial SSD OS I get a warning message that I am
not using a Samsung along with other text I can't remember now. I now
have a suspicion that this Samsung driver may be the cause of all this.

I have another Samsung 850 EVO I'm going to try and my guess is this
time everything will be fine.

So it's a filter driver problem :-) I think you're headed
down the right path. See, I can't afford any hardware
exotic enough to have one of those :-)

I did see a reference to a filter driver issue
today in one of those pages. but I discounted that
as a "how is this possible" issue...

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/943104

"UpperFilters" --- SamsungRapidDiskFltr.sys ???
"LowerFilters"

Now, if I was hunting in that area, I'd be using
devcon to list all of them. But it's rather hard
to get devcon64, so I'm not even going to discuss it :-)
If devcon64 was more readily available, we could talk.
(Not the Itanium version, the actual x64 version...)

Typical ref. to Devcon...

http://social.technet.microsoft.com/...evcon-exe.aspx



And you might use

devcon64.exe stack * output.txt

to get a list of all hardware and the upper and lower
filter entries of each. Your list is stored in
output.txt file.

This one does just the optical drive. The output
is to the command prompt screen.

devcon64 stack gencdrom

and the list should be a bit shorter.

And when I say devcon64.exe, I rename them to keep them
separate. I have a devcon.exe I got from the "regular" download
page. That one is easy to get, but is useless in a 64 bit era.
When I got the 64 bit version, I renamed it to devcon64.exe,
so I wouldn't mix them up. You won't find a reference to
"downloading devcon64.exe", since it won't be named that
way. But that's how I store it on disk, and they're both
stored in the same directory.

Since you already know the name is SamsungRapidDiskFltr.sys,
it should be easy to take care of. Or so they tell me.

Paul

Problem solved.

The quick and dirty fix all along was as simple as uninstalling
Samsung Magician software.

This being found out AFTER I returned from a trip to a local B&M
where I purchased a new Samsung SSD 850 EVO for the whopping price of
$239. I had decided that I just had to know if cloning to another
Samsung was the only way, knowing all along I could get the same item
for $169 online.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...500gb_2_5.html


I new I had to wait a few days for delivery and wanted this issue
solved A.S.A.P. almost at any cost. Now that I'm home and decided to
try one last time by removing Samsung Magician I find that buying
another SSD was totally unnecessary.

Now I have one more toy I can add to my collection of unneeded dust
collectors.

Live and not always learn.



I wonder why the Samsung software cannot avoid screwing
with the other hardware ? The filter driver could have
"gone transparent" and just passed the transactions of
the competing SSDs without messing with them.

At least you have your answer.

And now you have another drive for the pool, to rotate
as needed. Nothing wrong with that. I could use another
half-dozen here.

Paul

Samsung and SSDs are changing quite fast lately. Now more are showing
up on PCIe cards and M.2 FF. Intel is now the one to lead the bunch as
soon as the price comes down.

http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/...50-series.html

Most of my collection have been shelved as I entered the game when
they were 128 Gigs. I don't think I'll go larger than 500 Gigs looking
at the Intel DC S3610 Series at 1.6 TB. Don't ask me about my HDD museum.

I'm wondering why there are no posts, that I could find anyway, with
the same story as mine emphasizing the need to remove Samsung software
when you remove their SSD from the equation.