Build 1074 feels like Linux

Roger Blake wrote:

On 2015-06-13, GreyCloud wrote:
Funny that there are a lot of MS Copyright notices and SGI Copyright
notices
in X11R6. The widgets were made by MS back in the late 80s. SGI stuff
is
what you'd call Mesa and not GL. You were talking about rip-offs?

I'm reminded of a comment made by Woody Guthrie to Pete Seeger when
told that another songwriter had "ripped off" some of Guthrie's work:

"He just stole from me, but I steal from everybody!"

LOL!! I remember Gates making a point at the Berkeley HomeBrew Computer
club about the members making a copy of his basic interpreter.

On 06/14/2015 11:36 AM, GreyCloud wrote:
A wrote:

GreyCloud wrote:
T wrote:

On 06/12/2015 01:47 PM, Ken1943 wrote:
On Fri, 12 Jun 2015 13:36:57 -0700, T wrote:

On 06/11/2015 12:56 PM, GreyCloud wrote:
The problem with Linux distros is that when they come out with a new
version they always introduce new bugs.

As opposed to Windows? Oh my goodness!!! M$ has a long history of
patches breaking all kinds of things. And their OS updates have
a habit of breaking most everything, which is the point, so you
have to buy updates and spend $$$$ on programmers, who have to buy
software from M$ to write those programs.

And as far as Linux goes, the things I have noticed getting broken
as trivial. And the new bugs that get introduced a far fewer
than the bugs that get fixed.

And, And, you can always get Red Hat Enterprise Linux (or clones),
where things are locked down from that sort of thing for 10 years!

I can't be sure, but Linux has a .0000005% of the desktop users at the
most ??
If you want to push linux, go somewhere where people give a ****. Linux
desktops suck and the software is unpolished to say the least. Windows
programmers have some problems, but even the crappy programs are better
than what get written for linux****.

Hey, I like that name, Linux****.
Use it for servers and the science community, but never for general
use. Except for stupid people for surfing and email.


KenW


Hi Ken,

Sorehead. This is just friends talking computers. No one
is forcing you to read it.

And things have changed a lot. Try some of the new Live CD's:
https://spins.fedoraproject.org/

The only drawback Linux now has is the lack of business
applications. Unfortunately, I don't see that changing
and time soon.

The "surf" crowd should seriously think of an iPad.

-T

By the way, the more OS'es you learn, the more fun
this profession becomes.

For your info... the market place is changing to smart phone/mobile
devices. Desktops are starting to go away slowly.
That's the handwriting you see on the wall.



The question is is it a fad?

It sort of looks that way. Seeing that a lot of kids and young people using
them all the time.
But another fellow I know in England was pretty much on the mark about 10
years ago pointing out that electronics are being made a lot smaller and
we'd soon see handheld mobile devices doing most of what is being done on a
PC. PC sales have taken a nose dive from the reports I've seen at Forbes.
It doesn't surprise me either.


Hi Guys,

I think there will be a saturation point, then things will calm down
to information reviews and information creators. With the iPad's
drop in sales, we may have already hit it. I do not believe
either will ever "Go Away".

I am going to look at the Jolla tablet when it come out this fall.
https://jolla.com/
If you are using Firefox to view this page, make sure you have gstreamer
turned off or you will crash.

-T

On 06/14/2015 11:30 AM, GreyCloud wrote:
T wrote:

On 06/13/2015 02:00 PM, GreyCloud wrote:
without resorting to goofy forums that for the most you get no real
answers, just guff.

Sort of like this form?

In my 20+ years of doing this, I have had to pay M$, but
never anyone else.

I use the forums all the time with good luck.

Ask in any forum why xmkmf doesn't work.


Hi Grey Cloud,

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=problems+with+xmkmf+

I am not seeing your point? All OS'es have issues.
xmkmf is not a deal killer. I doubt a lot of us in the
Linux have even heard of it.

The Frankenstein series (w8 & w10) dwarf anything out there
in any of the alternative OS'es.

And since the alternative OS'es do not have but a fraction
of the Apps, it behooves us all to learn Frankenstein
and Sons really quickly. Since ease of use is a biggy with
you and your main criticism of Linux, Frankenstein and
Sons is an ease of use nightmare. Way worse than any of
the alternative OS'es. So we are off to the races!
(If you can get around in Frankenstein and Sons, you will have
issues with modern Linux spins.)

-T

Never had to learn much about Frankenstein the Elder
as it is really, really unpopular. But, I had to
learn certain basic things, like how to move around
the weird assed desktop, how to adjust the stinker
to actually shut down, how to get to the control panel,
yada, yada, yada

I do love winx and am constantly pressing it when
I work on Windows 7. And I constantly do ls in a
dos box (I know, the purists like me to call it
a command terminal).

On 06/14/2015 02:01 AM, A wrote:
T wrote:
On 06/13/2015 02:00 PM, GreyCloud wrote:
Oh my goodness!!! M$ has a long history of
patches breaking all kinds of things.

I've yet to experience that yet.

You are charmed. Do a good search and you will get
an ear full






Searching for people having problems with Windows comes up with no
results? Puhlease.



https://duckduckgo.com/?q=list+of+fa...indows+updates

Buried in the noise are actual historical lists of
all of them. I sent these to Char a few months back.

On 06/14/2015 11:29 AM, GreyCloud wrote:
A wrote:

Slimer wrote:
On 2015-06-14 10:59 AM, A wrote:

Idiocy

Not worth it.


Courageous people admit it when they're wrong. Weak cowards like you
just hurl lies and insults.


Go to cola and get your rewards there. This is a windows 10 preview
newsgroup. We aren't interested in your childish insults or form of
conversion.

I've got both linux and windows. I find that windows is far more forgiving
than linux.



I do both too. My experience is the other way around. I don't
have to keep mirrors of my Linux programs around. 1) Linux does not
require that to do a full recovery, and 2) Windows is a pain in the
ass.

I think it may be that you haven't tried a modem Linux spin in a while.
I sent you a link to a bunch of Fedora spins a few posts ago.
If you try them, I'd love your impression of Gnome. It ha gotten
really weird.

On 2015-06-14 12:29 PM, A wrote:
Slimer wrote:
I'm just to going to killfile him eventually as I tend to do to every
other member of the Linux Loser Liar's Club. Actually, let me do that
now. He's not worth bothering with.

Like I said, cowards run when refuted and *always* do it while hurling
lies and insults. How does it feel to be so predictable, jack ass?

LOL, you changed your address just to avoid being killfiled. I see that
you've taken a liking to being a lying Linux troll.

By the way, you don't seem to know what the definition of "to refute" is
because you haven't done anything. I've provided evidence of everything
I stated and put you against a wall. You provided the most ridiculous
response to my evidence and then claimed to have refuted something. I
can't imagine anything sadder. Either way, I have nothing further to say
to you.

--
Slimer
Proud "wintroll"
Encrypt.

On 2015-06-14 4:11 PM, T wrote:

I am going to look at the Jolla tablet when it come out this fall.
https://jolla.com/
If you are using Firefox to view this page, make sure you have gstreamer
turned off or you will crash.

^^^^^ Further evidence of open-source's quality.
--
Slimer
Proud "wintroll"
Encrypt.

Roger Blake wrote:

On 2015-06-13, Mark Lloyd wrote:
I recently needed to use a WiFi adapter (Netgear N150) to test a MiFi
device. Windows required a complex driver installation process. Linux
recognized it automatically.

SOME things "just work".

The thing to do if you're going to use Linux is to purchase hardware that
is known to work with it. This information can be provided either by the
manufacturer or by other users online who have tried a particular item.

I build my own desktop systems and just choose the appropriate hardware
so things will "just work." For laptops I buy models that either have
Linux support from the manufacturer (Lenovo is usually good for this),
or buy laptops containing hardware that is known to be supported. So I
really don't run into many problems. A little up-front research saves
a lot of headaches.

I am getting a bit disgruntled with the way Linux is developing recently
due to the adoption of systemd, so next round of upgrades I'll be looking
harder at the BSDs, maybe time to get back into real Unix.


There is quite a bit of work to get FreeBSD installed. Almost everything
other than the os itself is done manually. Of course they do have
instructions to do this.

I have Solaris 10, tho there is now Solaris 11, that is free as well.
You can also download their compiler set for free as well. I know it is a
real UNIX. Solaris 10 comes with both Java Desktop and CDE window managers.

The only real problem is that after 30 days, the updates cost a bit of
money, so it may not be what you are willing to try tho.

On 2015-06-14, Rene Lamontagne wrote:
Why not? you act like loving Brothers :-))

More like a longtime married couple. (See "The Bickersons.")

https://archive.org/details/TheBickersons54Episodes

These guys really do need to get a room.

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Roger Blake (Change "invalid" to "com" for email. Google Groups killfiled.)

NSA sedition and treason -- http://www.DeathToNSAthugs.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

On 2015-06-14, GreyCloud wrote:
There is quite a bit of work to get FreeBSD installed. Almost everything
other than the os itself is done manually. Of course they do have
instructions to do this.

Not necessarily a problem for me. It's probably a breeze compared to what
we needed to do to get Unix Sixth Edition installed on a PDP-11, or for
that matter BSD 4.1 on a Vax.

Speaking of which, I still have my BSD 4.1 Programmer's Manual copyrighted
1981. Amazing that so many of the basic Unix commands are the same,
though of course they have been updated with new capabilities over
the years. Also this 1981 manual repeatedly uses the term "internet"
in its networking sections and describes protocols that are unnamed but
clearly development versions of TCP and UDP. Leafing through this manual
is an interesting journey through history.

I have Solaris 10, tho there is now Solaris 11, that is free as well.
You can also download their compiler set for free as well. I know it is a
real UNIX. Solaris 10 comes with both Java Desktop and CDE window managers.

Thanks, maybe I'll give that spin.

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Roger Blake (Change "invalid" to "com" for email. Google Groups killfiled.)

NSA sedition and treason -- http://www.DeathToNSAthugs.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

On Sun, 14 Jun 2015 17:13:56 -0500, Char Jackson wrote:

That sounded rather petulant.

+1

GreyCloud wrote:

Stef wrote:


[big snip]

You'll find a lot of complaints about wi-fi in many linux forums.

Many times, it due to one big mistake: The user didn't RTFM.

Well, some distros set it up right and some don't from what I've seen so
far.

Some installers are better than others, but the user has to make the
proper configuration choices anyway. In many installers, wifi
and power saving tools, etc -- something usually seen on laptops --
are not installed by default. You have to tell the installer you're
installing on a laptop, then the installer will set up wifi, etc. Most
users new to Linux make this mistake. They haven't RTFM. And if there's
a hardware issue, the installer will usually tell you, and advise you
how to fix it. Installers have greatly improved over the past few
years.

[snip]
The main problem now when installing Linux is Secure Boot. It has to be
turned off and left off for Linux to install and work.


Nice to know that one. I preferred a nice HP tower with ECC ram. Never had
any trouble with windows in that situation.
It'll be a long time before I buy another PC, if any.

There are a few exceptions. IIRC Red Hat Enterprise Linux, CentOS,
Ubuntu, and SUSE all have signing keys purchased directly from
Microsoft, and will work with Secure Boot turned on.

Stef

GreyCloud wrote:
A wrote:

GreyCloud wrote:
T wrote:

On 06/12/2015 01:47 PM, Ken1943 wrote:
On Fri, 12 Jun 2015 13:36:57 -0700, T wrote:

On 06/11/2015 12:56 PM, GreyCloud wrote:
The problem with Linux distros is that when they come out with a new
version they always introduce new bugs.

As opposed to Windows? Oh my goodness!!! M$ has a long history of
patches breaking all kinds of things. And their OS updates have
a habit of breaking most everything, which is the point, so you
have to buy updates and spend $$$$ on programmers, who have to buy
software from M$ to write those programs.

And as far as Linux goes, the things I have noticed getting broken
as trivial. And the new bugs that get introduced a far fewer
than the bugs that get fixed.

And, And, you can always get Red Hat Enterprise Linux (or clones),
where things are locked down from that sort of thing for 10 years!

I can't be sure, but Linux has a .0000005% of the desktop users at the
most ??
If you want to push linux, go somewhere where people give a ****. Linux
desktops suck and the software is unpolished to say the least. Windows
programmers have some problems, but even the crappy programs are better
than what get written for linux****.

Hey, I like that name, Linux****.
Use it for servers and the science community, but never for general
use. Except for stupid people for surfing and email.


KenW


Hi Ken,

Sorehead. This is just friends talking computers. No one
is forcing you to read it.

And things have changed a lot. Try some of the new Live CD's:
https://spins.fedoraproject.org/

The only drawback Linux now has is the lack of business
applications. Unfortunately, I don't see that changing
and time soon.

The "surf" crowd should seriously think of an iPad.

-T

By the way, the more OS'es you learn, the more fun
this profession becomes.

For your info... the market place is changing to smart phone/mobile
devices. Desktops are starting to go away slowly.
That's the handwriting you see on the wall.

06

The question is is it a fad?

It sort of looks that way. Seeing that a lot of kids and young people using
them all the time.
But another fellow I know in England was pretty much on the mark about 10
years ago pointing out that electronics are being made a lot smaller and
we'd soon see handheld mobile devices doing most of what is being done on a
PC. PC sales have taken a nose dive from the reports I've seen at Forbes.
It doesn't surprise me either.


I also think that post 09 computers were/are fast enough, easy to repair
and can archive smartphone photos and videos. I think we will see a
desktop comeback with the computer being much smaller than a tower.
Eventually the post 09 computer will also be replaced.

--
A

GreyCloud wrote:
A wrote:

GreyCloud wrote:
A wrote:

Slimer wrote:
On 2015-06-13 7:03 AM, A wrote:
Slimer wrote:
On 2015-06-12 6:33 PM, Johnny wrote:
On Fri, 12 Jun 2015 18:18:27 -0400
Slimer wrote:

On 2015-06-12 4:47 PM, Ken1943 wrote:
On Fri, 12 Jun 2015 13:36:57 -0700, T wrote:

On 06/11/2015 12:56 PM, GreyCloud wrote:
The problem with Linux distros is that when they come out with a
new version they always introduce new bugs.

As opposed to Windows? Oh my goodness!!! M$ has a long history
of
patches breaking all kinds of things. And their OS updates have
a habit of breaking most everything, which is the point, so you
have to buy updates and spend $$$$ on programmers, who have to
buy software from M$ to write those programs.

And as far as Linux goes, the things I have noticed getting
broken
as trivial. And the new bugs that get introduced a far fewer
than the bugs that get fixed.

And, And, you can always get Red Hat Enterprise Linux (or
clones), where things are locked down from that sort of thing for
10 years!

I can't be sure, but Linux has a .0000005% of the desktop users at
the most ??

1.5%, give or take. People tend to try it out and lose their ****
within the first week of its installation because an update broke
some of the functionality or left them with an unusable desktop.

Why don't you quit lying and tell the truth for a change? I have
never
known an update to break anything. The people that give up in a
week, just won't accept the fact that Linux is a completely
different
operating system, and take the time to learn how to use it. Instead
they give up and run back to something that is more comfortable and
familiar to them.

I moved to Linux to get away from the Spyware that Windows is, and
promised myself that I wouldn't go back, and I haven't.

I probably had more trouble learning how to use Linux Mint without
screwing it up so bad it was useless, than anyone, but I stuck with
it, and had people to help me, and I'm still using it 18 months
later.

I'm lying about updates breaking the system? Let's see...

https://www.linuxquestions.org/quest...ch-update-%3D-
break-4175438110/



Three years old.


https://superuser.com/questions/3729...i-bios-update-
break-the-efi-boot-manager





Two years old.
https://askubuntu.com/questions/2231...-after-update-
linux-headers-error-brokencount-0




A year old and Ubuntu isn't as good as Mint.


https://unix.stackexchange.com/quest...t-update-with-
nvidia-breaks-cinnamon




Two years old and three Linux versions behind.



http://www.webupd8.org/2014/09/recen...buntu-desktop-
on.html




A year old.

https://forum.sabayon.org/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=32123

A year old and a few versions behind on a little known distro.


I'm sure all of those are lies as well.

Seems to me their problems rest between the keyboard and the chair,
just like you.


You might want to think twice about calling someone a liar when so
much evidence is available on the web. Take your Linux propaganda and
shove it up your ass, nobody here cares about the amateur code you
call an operating system.


Wrong again, I'm interested.

Ugh, manipulation. If the articles were just two weeks old, you would
actually say "two weeks old" as if it somehow forgave the operating
system. The point I was making was that updating Linux risks breaking
it. Your friend didn't believe me and I proved it with a number of
links. You can claim that it's an old problem and that it's been fixed,
but the reality is that it is a problem which has existed since Linux's
beginnings and it is still around.


I've never had that problem since 03. What am I doing wrong? It's easy
to find problems with *any* OS, dumb ass, even Windows. I worked on a
Windows laptop computer that would not boot. As the reboot on BSOD is
set by default, there was no way to read the BSOD code. It wouldn't go
into Safe Mode. Windows 7. Hardware, you'd say? Nope, WINDOWS. I
reinstalled Windows and it's been working fine for a couple of weeks
now. So if you think your little Google searches prove anything, I want
whatever it is you've been smoking.

Maybe it's because you couldn't figure out why it wouldn't boot
technically? How come the PC shops can get one of these working in a few
minutes then, like the Geek Squad from BestBuy?


They can't.

So you say.



Repair was greyed out. No other option other than reformat or quit and
reboot to the same **** over and over again to the same options. What
would have you done?

--
A

GreyCloud wrote:
A wrote:

GreyCloud wrote:
A wrote:

Slimer wrote:
1.5%, give or take. People tend to try it out and lose their ****
within the first week of its installation because an update broke some
of the functionality or left them with an unusable desktop.

Generalize with stereotypes much? I have two web sites that have nothing
to do with computers or Linux and over 14% of the visitors use Linux and
that's been going on for about a year (before that it was about 5%).
Windows 8 (barf) helped a lot. The Windows 10 cloud trip and eventual
rental will help even more.

But that isn't a world wide metric tho.
Depends on what is on your website that draws them in.


It's about Spanish language education and international travel. Not
exactly a geeky interest. The international travel is only open for
females. So, you were saying, Mr. I believe in stereotypes?

Where did I mention stereotypes?

Sorry, you're right; that was Slimer. I'm getting old.


These days I wouldn't even both to get on any jetliner.
I don't feel like getting groped by TSA.

Don't blame you. Me either.


And how do I know that you are telling the truth?


You don't.

--
A