external NVMe enclosures with external power supply?

On 2020-04-10 06:35, VanguardLH wrote:
T wrote:

Any you guys know of an external NVMe enclosures with an external
power supplies?

Found some by going to newegg.com and searching on "nvme enclosure".
I've used Newegg many times in the past, like for a new build. Go to
whatever e-tailer you've used and search them.



All the ones I have found are powered through the usb-c connector, which
can not supply the 10 watts I need.

Do you find any with an external power supply?

T wrote:

On 2020-04-10 06:35, VanguardLH wrote:
T wrote:

Any you guys know of an external NVMe enclosures with an external
power supplies?

Found some by going to newegg.com and searching on "nvme enclosure".
I've used Newegg many times in the past, like for a new build. Go to
whatever e-tailer you've used and search them.


All the ones I have found are powered through the usb-c connector, which
can not supply the 10 watts I need.

Do you find any with an external power supply?

"There are four power and ground contacts each in a USB Type C connector
making it able to aggregately carry 5 A of current."
(https://www.cuidevices.com/blog/usb-...en-2-clarified)

5V x 5A = 25W

USB-C can actually deliver up to 100W but that requires a higher voltage
(20V x 5A). USB-C is just the physical spec. How much power it can
deliver depends on what logic you connect to it.

"In addition to the higher current rating, USB Type C connectors are
also rated up to 20 V between the power and ground pins, allowing for
100 W of power transfer."
(from above article)

Unless you designed your own USB-C endpoint that delivers higher voltage
at the max of 5 amperes, 25W is the limit; however, if you're relying on
someone else's build, you'll have to find out how much power their
controller will deliver that is connected to the USB-C port.

I'm sure most respondents figured "NVMe" meant you wanted to reuse some
NVMe m.2 memory module(s), but never said just how you planned on
connecing the "NVMe enclosures" to anything. One guess is to use a USB
connection. An "NVMe enclosure" by itself is uninteresting since it
cannot do anything by itself.

Assuming you are looking to [re]use some NVMe m.2 memory in an external
enclosure and use USB to connect that enclosure to a computer's USB
port, you sure you need 10W?

https://www.anandtech.com/show/13761...s-ssd-review/9

That shows 7.5W is the max for that device. However, the tables in that
article show none of the tested modules got above 3.5W.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...F2oKQJwxEurDnc

Power consumption is a lot lower than 10W. Guess it must be something
other than SSD you're connecting to the NVMe connection. Seems you need
to find an enclosure that matches the NVMe Gen version (Gen 2, Gen 3,
Gen 4) as whatever you're looking to put into the enclosure. If you're
using an NVMe SSD inside the enclosure, the m.2 spec limits power to 7W
(but I forget over what interval versus a sustained max power rating).

Impossible to find solutions when no one but you knows what you are
trying to build. Do you know what device you're going to be sliding
into some format factor utilizing NVMe (on the device, not necessary the
connection) and how you'll be connecting that external enclosure to
somewhere else to make it useful?

On 2020-04-10 17:35, VanguardLH wrote:
Impossible to find solutions when no one but you knows what you are
trying to build.

Hi Vanguard,

I am after precisely what I asked for. An external
NVMe enclosure that has an external power supply.

The usage is to clone drives and to be univesral
to any customer that has USB ports (2, 3 or C).

-T

T wrote:

The usage is to clone drives and to be univesral to any customer that
has USB ports (2, 3 or C).

And here, because not mentioned, I thought you were repurposing an old
NVMe SSD m.2 drive to put into an external enclosure to allow you
portability or removability of that drive, just like with any USB drive.

An NVMe duplictor is pricey ($1000 to $3000 USD, or more).

Since you'll be going through an NVMe to USB converter in the external
enclosure, why does it have to be an NVMe device connected via USB?
That external NVMe device won't appear as one, but just another USB mass
storage device. Why can't the drive inside the USB enclosure be a flash
drive, HDD, or SSD?

On 2020-04-12 05:38, VanguardLH wrote:
T wrote:

The usage is to clone drives and to be univesral to any customer that
has USB ports (2, 3 or C).

And here, because not mentioned, I thought you were repurposing an old
NVMe SSD m.2 drive to put into an external enclosure to allow you
portability or removability of that drive, just like with any USB drive.

An NVMe duplictor is pricey ($1000 to $3000 USD, or more).

Since you'll be going through an NVMe to USB converter in the external
enclosure, why does it have to be an NVMe device connected via USB?
That external NVMe device won't appear as one, but just another USB mass
storage device. Why can't the drive inside the USB enclosure be a flash
drive, HDD, or SSD?


The problem here is if you only have one NVMe slot
and need to clone for some reason, say to a larger
NVMe drive or because something has started to go
wrong with the original.

Yes clone over USB3 to an external NVMe carrier,
then remove the NVMe from the carrier and install
it into the computer's motherboard.

I can always CloneZilla to a external SATA SSD or
SATA mechanical drive and then remove and replace
the NVMe drive and CloneZilla back to it.

CloneZilla as it does not expand the partitions
and it has a rescue mode. (I use gparted to
expand when I am finished.)

I am trying to avoid to extra step and the labor
cost associated with it.

And I do not know what kind of USB the customer's
computer will have and add to that, the need for
a lot of power to get an NVMe drive not to drop out
when under heavy load, I need an external power
supply.

So far, I can only find external power supplies on
dual drive carriers. And I'd really like to spend
less than 400 U$D on the external carrier.

On 4/12/2020 3:45 PM, T wrote:
On 2020-04-12 05:38, VanguardLH wrote:
T wrote:

The usage is to clone drives and to be univesral to any customer that
has USB ports (2, 3 or C).

And here, because not mentioned, I thought you were repurposing an old
NVMe SSD m.2 drive to put into an external enclosure to allow you
portability or removability of that drive, just like with any USB drive.

An NVMe duplictor is pricey ($1000 to $3000 USD, or more).

Since you'll be going through an NVMe to USB converter in the external
enclosure, why does it have to be an NVMe device connected via USB?
That external NVMe device won't appear as one, but just another USB mass
storage device.Â* Why can't the drive inside the USB enclosure be a flash
drive, HDD, or SSD?


The problem here is if you only have one NVMe slot
and need to clone for some reason, say to a larger
NVMe drive or because something has started to go
wrong with the original.

Yes clone over USB3 to an external NVMe carrier,
then remove the NVMe from the carrier and install
it into the computer's motherboard.

I can always CloneZilla to a external SATA SSD or
SATA mechanical drive and then remove and replace
the NVMe drive and CloneZilla back to it.

CloneZilla as it does not expand the partitions
and it has a rescue mode. (I use gparted to
expand when I am finished.)

I am trying to avoid to extra step and the labor
cost associated with it.

And I do not know what kind of USB the customer's
computer will have and add to that, the need for
a lot of power to get an NVMe drive not to drop out
when under heavy load, I need an external power
supply.

So far, I can only find external power supplies on
dual drive carriers.Â* And I'd really like to spend
less than 400 U$D on the external carrier.

Special today on NewEgg
https://www.newegg.com/orico-tcm2-c3-sv-bp-enclosure/p/0VN-0003-001D4?Item=9SIA1DS91E7169&utm_medium=Email&utm_sou rce=ShellShocker&cm_mmc=EMC-SD042020-_-SD04122020-_-Item-_-9SIA1DS91E7169&tp=i-1NHD-Q7H-1Hk-2FHQbX-2G-BDZN-1c-6Tm-2FHTIY-l4U9TJ63ft-hVlEs&om_rid=2058064551&om_mid=4944&email64=RXJpY0 BCbG9jaC5jb20%3d


--
Zaidy036

T wrote:
On 2020-04-12 05:38, VanguardLH wrote:
T wrote:

The usage is to clone drives and to be univesral to any customer that
has USB ports (2, 3 or C).

And here, because not mentioned, I thought you were repurposing an old
NVMe SSD m.2 drive to put into an external enclosure to allow you
portability or removability of that drive, just like with any USB drive.

An NVMe duplictor is pricey ($1000 to $3000 USD, or more).

Since you'll be going through an NVMe to USB converter in the external
enclosure, why does it have to be an NVMe device connected via USB?
That external NVMe device won't appear as one, but just another USB mass
storage device.Â* Why can't the drive inside the USB enclosure be a flash
drive, HDD, or SSD?


The problem here is if you only have one NVMe slot
and need to clone for some reason, say to a larger
NVMe drive or because something has started to go
wrong with the original.

Yes clone over USB3 to an external NVMe carrier,
then remove the NVMe from the carrier and install
it into the computer's motherboard.

I can always CloneZilla to a external SATA SSD or
SATA mechanical drive and then remove and replace
the NVMe drive and CloneZilla back to it.

CloneZilla as it does not expand the partitions
and it has a rescue mode. (I use gparted to
expand when I am finished.)

I am trying to avoid to extra step and the labor
cost associated with it.

And I do not know what kind of USB the customer's
computer will have and add to that, the need for
a lot of power to get an NVMe drive not to drop out
when under heavy load, I need an external power
supply.

So far, I can only find external power supplies on
dual drive carriers.Â* And I'd really like to spend
less than 400 U$D on the external carrier.

Make your own. Pin-outs are on the web.
Cut the power wires on a short good quality high amperage usb3
extension cable and splice in power supply jacks for USB2
and USB3 to power the nvme hub.
Eliminate any chance of back feeding power to the comp of course.
You can then add a small fan to the enclosure, too.

On 2020-04-12 13:17, Zaidy036 wrote:
On 4/12/2020 3:45 PM, T wrote:
On 2020-04-12 05:38, VanguardLH wrote:
T wrote:

The usage is to clone drives and to be univesral to any customer that
has USB ports (2, 3 or C).

And here, because not mentioned, I thought you were repurposing an old
NVMe SSD m.2 drive to put into an external enclosure to allow you
portability or removability of that drive, just like with any USB drive.

An NVMe duplictor is pricey ($1000 to $3000 USD, or more).

Since you'll be going through an NVMe to USB converter in the external
enclosure, why does it have to be an NVMe device connected via USB?
That external NVMe device won't appear as one, but just another USB mass
storage device.Â* Why can't the drive inside the USB enclosure be a flash
drive, HDD, or SSD?


The problem here is if you only have one NVMe slot
and need to clone for some reason, say to a larger
NVMe drive or because something has started to go
wrong with the original.

Yes clone over USB3 to an external NVMe carrier,
then remove the NVMe from the carrier and install
it into the computer's motherboard.

I can always CloneZilla to a external SATA SSD or
SATA mechanical drive and then remove and replace
the NVMe drive and CloneZilla back to it.

CloneZilla as it does not expand the partitions
and it has a rescue mode. (I use gparted to
expand when I am finished.)

I am trying to avoid to extra step and the labor
cost associated with it.

And I do not know what kind of USB the customer's
computer will have and add to that, the need for
a lot of power to get an NVMe drive not to drop out
when under heavy load, I need an external power
supply.

So far, I can only find external power supplies on
dual drive carriers.Â* And I'd really like to spend
less than 400 U$D on the external carrier.

Special today on NewEgg
https://www.newegg.com/orico-tcm2-c3-sv-bp-enclosure/p/0VN-0003-001D4?Item=9SIA1DS91E7169&utm_medium=Email&utm_sou rce=ShellShocker&cm_mmc=EMC-SD042020-_-SD04122020-_-Item-_-9SIA1DS91E7169&tp=i-1NHD-Q7H-1Hk-2FHQbX-2G-BDZN-1c-6Tm-2FHTIY-l4U9TJ63ft-hVlEs&om_rid=2058064551&om_mid=4944&email64=RXJpY0 BCbG9jaC5jb20%3d

Damn! It does not have an external power supply!
It would be perfect other than that.

Thank you anyway.

On 2020-04-12 13:30, Paul in Houston TX wrote:
T wrote:
On 2020-04-12 05:38, VanguardLH wrote:
T wrote:

The usage is to clone drives and to be univesral to any customer that
has USB ports (2, 3 or C).

And here, because not mentioned, I thought you were repurposing an old
NVMe SSD m.2 drive to put into an external enclosure to allow you
portability or removability of that drive, just like with any USB drive.

An NVMe duplictor is pricey ($1000 to $3000 USD, or more).

Since you'll be going through an NVMe to USB converter in the external
enclosure, why does it have to be an NVMe device connected via USB?
That external NVMe device won't appear as one, but just another USB mass
storage device.Â* Why can't the drive inside the USB enclosure be a flash
drive, HDD, or SSD?


The problem here is if you only have one NVMe slot
and need to clone for some reason, say to a larger
NVMe drive or because something has started to go
wrong with the original.

Yes clone over USB3 to an external NVMe carrier,
then remove the NVMe from the carrier and install
it into the computer's motherboard.

I can always CloneZilla to a external SATA SSD or
SATA mechanical drive and then remove and replace
the NVMe drive and CloneZilla back to it.

CloneZilla as it does not expand the partitions
and it has a rescue mode. (I use gparted to
expand when I am finished.)

I am trying to avoid to extra step and the labor
cost associated with it.

And I do not know what kind of USB the customer's
computer will have and add to that, the need for
a lot of power to get an NVMe drive not to drop out
when under heavy load, I need an external power
supply.

So far, I can only find external power supplies on
dual drive carriers.Â* And I'd really like to spend
less than 400 U$D on the external carrier.

Make your own.Â* Pin-outs are on the web.
Cut the power wires on a short good quality high amperage usb3
extension cable and splice in power supply jacks for USB2
and USB3 to power the nvme hub.
Eliminate any chance of back feeding power to the comp of course.
You can then add a small fan to the enclosure, too.

That is an idea. Thank you! Hopefully I will
find something before having to do that.

In article , Zaidy036
wrote:

Special today on NewEgg

https://www.newegg.com/orico-tcm2-c3...-001D4?Item=9S
IA1DS91E7169&utm_medium=Email&utm_source=ShellShoc ker&cm_mmc=EMC-SD042020-_-SD
04122020-_-Item-_-9SIA1DS91E7169&tp=i-1NHD-Q7H-1Hk-2FHQbX-2G-BDZN-1c-6Tm-2FH
TIY-l4U9TJ63ft-hVlEs&om_rid=2058064551&om_mid=4944&email64=RXJpY0 BCbG9jaC5jb20%3d

trimmed, without the tracking info:
https://www.newegg.com/orico-tcm2-c3-sv-bp-enclosure/p/0VN-0003-001D4

T wrote:

On 2020-04-12 05:38, VanguardLH wrote:
T wrote:

The usage is to clone drives and to be univesral to any customer that
has USB ports (2, 3 or C).

And here, because not mentioned, I thought you were repurposing an old
NVMe SSD m.2 drive to put into an external enclosure to allow you
portability or removability of that drive, just like with any USB drive.

An NVMe duplictor is pricey ($1000 to $3000 USD, or more).

Since you'll be going through an NVMe to USB converter in the external
enclosure, why does it have to be an NVMe device connected via USB?
That external NVMe device won't appear as one, but just another USB mass
storage device. Why can't the drive inside the USB enclosure be a flash
drive, HDD, or SSD?


The problem here is if you only have one NVMe slot
and need to clone for some reason, say to a larger
NVMe drive or because something has started to go
wrong with the original.

Yes clone over USB3 to an external NVMe carrier,
then remove the NVMe from the carrier and install
it into the computer's motherboard.

I can always CloneZilla to a external SATA SSD or
SATA mechanical drive and then remove and replace
the NVMe drive and CloneZilla back to it.

CloneZilla as it does not expand the partitions
and it has a rescue mode. (I use gparted to
expand when I am finished.)

I am trying to avoid to extra step and the labor
cost associated with it.

And I do not know what kind of USB the customer's
computer will have and add to that, the need for
a lot of power to get an NVMe drive not to drop out
when under heavy load, I need an external power
supply.

So far, I can only find external power supplies on
dual drive carriers. And I'd really like to spend
less than 400 U$D on the external carrier.

Okay, I assumed you were going the other way, like you had a prep image
on the USB drive that you were going to clone to a drive in one, or
more, computers.

If there was something going bad with the NVMe drive in the mobo slot,
my instinct would be to copy it to another drive, but not move it out of
its mobo m.2 slot. I'd do an in-place backup rather than risk
compounding multiple problems. Only if that did not work would I try to
remove and reinsert the m.2 card, or use it in another mobo or, in your
case, stick it in an external enclosure (which still compounds the
hardware protocols since you're changing from PCI to PCI-to-USB for
conversion within the external enclosure).

To just backup the old NVMe m.2 because you want to move to a larger m.2
stick, I'd still do an in-place backup. Because you don't the type of
USB port in the customer's computer, you could end up using 1.1 or 2.0
instead of 3.0 or 3.1. Since you don't know what connectivity you'll
have, I'd get a really big SSD (or HDD if your budget can't afford huge
SSD) in an external encloser that has both USB 3.x and eSATA ports.
Then, if the customer's computer has an unused SATA slot, I'd use that
before going with USB.

With removing the original m.2 stick from the mobo to put into an
external enclosure, not only would you be compounding the hardware
protocols (NVMe/PCI to USB), you're also risking physical damage to the
original m.2 stick by removing it from the mobo before you've cloned
from it, improper installation into the external enclosure, exposing it
to a different power source, static zaps, and so on. By backing up
while the original m.2 stick is still in its mobo slot means not risking
physical damage to the stick. If you first moved it to an external
enclosure, it didn't work, and you moved it back to the mobo's m.2 slot,
and it also no longer worked there, the customer would be ****ed you
ruined their setup and they'd have to start all over or recover from
backups (after possibly having to get a new m.2 stick to do the
recovery).

Since the customer has a mobo with a m.2 slot for NVMe sticks, they very
likely also have SATA-3 ports on the mobo. Even if the customer's box
doesn't have an eSATA port, they may have unused SATA ports on the mobo.
They might have a spare SATA3 port even if they don't have USB3 port.
With an external USB+eSATA SSD drive, you could still use SATA3 in case
they don't have a USB3 type C port.

It is unlikely that the orignal m.2 stick is full. More likely is the
customer wants more breathing room. You'd only be backing up the
clusters that were actually inuse. Use a external drive with USB3 and
eSATA ports. Yes, you have to clone twice: once to the external drive,
insert the new m.2 NVMe stick in the mobo, and clone back. More time to
do a backup and a restore, but less risk of borking the original setup.

To get more breathing room on the m.2 stick, you might want to check if
the customer is dumping all their data files on it. Not a good
destination for data due to wear levelling, junction stress during
writes, and that SSDs are self-destructive due to write failure. They
should be moving their data files elsewhere than the device where the OS
and apps run from, like to an internal SATA3 SSD or HDD. Get those data
writes off the primary NVMe drive.

To me, you moving the m.2 stick out of the box into an enclosure before
cloning from it and doing the cloning only after the move incurs too
much risk for the customer.

While you mention doing the in-place clone with the m.2 stick still in
the mobo slot to the USB-NVMe external drive, where's your backup? You
cloned to the USB-NVMe drive, take out the mobo m.2 stick, put in the
cloned m.2 stick, and the computer won't boot or there are other
problems. You put back the original m.2 stick, and still problems. The
working computer now has problems. Where's your backup for recovery?
The scenario sounds fine for a personal scenario, but seems a bit risky
for a customer scenario.

I don't see any of those USB-NVMe enclosures that are designed to be
repeatedly dismantled and reassembled. Not only would you be taking
apart that external case several times, which means you'll increase the
chances of breaking the case or damaging the m.2 slot inside the case,
you'll have to keep reusing the heat spreader. You shouldn't be reusing
the same old thermal pads that came with the external case, so you'll
have to get more thermal pads (and hope they don't cause a fit problem
with the case). Those external NVMe cases are designed to a one-time
build, not for repeated reuse. Not only do those external NVMe cases
not meet your requirement for an external power supply (which you'll
have to check can supply sufficient amperage from the A/C adapter), but
they are not designed for for your use case. Even having to repeatedly
remove and insert m.2 sticks into the same slot and not lose the tiny
screw to hold down the stick means increased risk.

How many times do you plan on using a USB-NVMe external drive to
facilitate upgrading to a larger m.2 stick on the mobo? If more than
once, those external USB-NVMe enclosures are built for industrial or
commercial use as cloning stations. If you're going to do this 1 to 3
times a year, just suffer with having to do 2 clones/backups. How much
time will it take you to assemble the external USB-NVMe case (put in the
m.2 stick, screw it down, assemble the case, apply the thermal pads,
apply the heat spreader, screw down the heat spreader) and then
disassemble the external case (to move its m.2 stick to the mobo) versus
the time for a single clone (since another clone will still be needed at
a minimum). That is, how much time do you save having to assemble and
disassemble the external case to reduce the clone count to 1 versus
doing 2 clones by using a USB SSD or HDD?

If the customer doesn't want to add an internal SATA-3 SSD drive (for
data and maybe some apps), you sure they don't have another m.2 slot on
their mobo? Mobo kits may come with a heat spreader for the m.2 stick,
but usually supply only one of those, so you'll have to get a heat
spreader for the other m.2 sticks. At Newegg, about a third of their
mobos have only a single m.2 slot, two-thirds have 2 or 3 m.2 slots, but
the customer's mobo might have an unused SATA port. They'd pay you for
your time to assemble the USB-NVMe drive with the bigger NVMe SSD, clone
the m.2 mobo stick to the external USB-NVMe drive, disassemble the
USB-NVMe enclosure to remove the m.2 stick, remove the mobo's m.2 stick,
and slide in the replacement m.2 stick and test the computer still boots
and runs okay. Or they could pay your time to add an internal SATA SSD
to allow expansion there. Adding another internal drive probably takes
less time than just one clone/backup. You could even span the volume
across the m.2 and SSD drives, so they don't see a change or addition of
drive letters, but that means losing some of the speed advantage of the
m.2 NVMe drive for any files that end up on the internal SATA-3 SSD in
the spanned volume.

On 2020-04-13 07:55, VanguardLH wrote:
T wrote:

On 2020-04-12 05:38, VanguardLH wrote:
T wrote:

The usage is to clone drives and to be univesral to any customer that
has USB ports (2, 3 or C).

And here, because not mentioned, I thought you were repurposing an old
NVMe SSD m.2 drive to put into an external enclosure to allow you
portability or removability of that drive, just like with any USB drive.

An NVMe duplictor is pricey ($1000 to $3000 USD, or more).

Since you'll be going through an NVMe to USB converter in the external
enclosure, why does it have to be an NVMe device connected via USB?
That external NVMe device won't appear as one, but just another USB mass
storage device. Why can't the drive inside the USB enclosure be a flash
drive, HDD, or SSD?


The problem here is if you only have one NVMe slot
and need to clone for some reason, say to a larger
NVMe drive or because something has started to go
wrong with the original.

Yes clone over USB3 to an external NVMe carrier,
then remove the NVMe from the carrier and install
it into the computer's motherboard.

I can always CloneZilla to a external SATA SSD or
SATA mechanical drive and then remove and replace
the NVMe drive and CloneZilla back to it.

CloneZilla as it does not expand the partitions
and it has a rescue mode. (I use gparted to
expand when I am finished.)

I am trying to avoid to extra step and the labor
cost associated with it.

And I do not know what kind of USB the customer's
computer will have and add to that, the need for
a lot of power to get an NVMe drive not to drop out
when under heavy load, I need an external power
supply.

So far, I can only find external power supplies on
dual drive carriers. And I'd really like to spend
less than 400 U$D on the external carrier.

Okay, I assumed you were going the other way, like you had a prep image
on the USB drive that you were going to clone to a drive in one, or
more, computers.

Hi Vanguard,

I tend to ask pin point questions because I am seeking a
pin point answer. If you want to expand the question, write me
back with "What are your trying to accomplish? Maybe there
is another way of accomplishing it". that way you will
not waste a ton of your time writing me things that
don't apply.


If there was something going bad with the NVMe drive in the mobo slot,
my instinct would be to copy it to another drive, but not move it out of
its mobo m.2 slot. I'd do an in-place backup rather than risk
compounding multiple problems. Only if that did not work would I try to
remove and reinsert the m.2 card, or use it in another mobo or, in your
case, stick it in an external enclosure (which still compounds the
hardware protocols since you're changing from PCI to PCI-to-USB for
conversion within the external enclosure).

That is what I do. I do not remove the original from the case. I don't
not even change the physical orientation of mechanical drives as I don't
want the bearing to fail. After cloning,
I temporarily mount he new drive and make sure it boot before removing
the original drive. I am a total paranoid


To just backup the old NVMe m.2 because you want to move to a larger m.2
stick, I'd still do an in-place backup. Because you don't the type of
USB port in the customer's computer, you could end up using 1.1 or 2.0
instead of 3.0 or 3.1. Since you don't know what connectivity you'll
have, I'd get a really big SSD (or HDD if your budget can't afford huge
SSD) in an external encloser that has both USB 3.x and eSATA ports.
Then, if the customer's computer has an unused SATA slot, I'd use that
before going with USB.

I only use USB if I have to. With SATA SSD's I will go
and find a spare SATA port. Some SATA paorts are still
mixed II and III on older comptuers, so I will often
disconnect their DVD drive to make sure I get a II port.
The tip off is that the motherboard connects are usually
a different color for II and III ports.

The few times I have to suffer a USB2 port, took F-O-R-E-V-E-R


With removing the original m.2 stick from the mobo to put into an
external enclosure, not only would you be compounding the hardware
protocols (NVMe/PCI to USB), you're also risking physical damage to the
original m.2 stick by removing it from the mobo before you've cloned
from it, improper installation into the external enclosure, exposing it
to a different power source, static zaps, and so on. By backing up
while the original m.2 stick is still in its mobo slot means not risking
physical damage to the stick. If you first moved it to an external
enclosure, it didn't work, and you moved it back to the mobo's m.2 slot,
and it also no longer worked there, the customer would be ****ed you
ruined their setup and they'd have to start all over or recover from
backups (after possibly having to get a new m.2 stick to do the
recovery).

When transferring static sensitive parts, I always have
one hand on the metal case. I was a radio design engineer
previously and RF transistors are crazy static sensitive,
so I learned. That and when I was an explosives engineer.
(Did automated testing on land mine circuitry.)


Since the customer has a mobo with a m.2 slot for NVMe sticks, they very
likely also have SATA-3 ports on the mobo. Even if the customer's box
doesn't have an eSATA port, they may have unused SATA ports on the mobo.
They might have a spare SATA3 port even if they don't have USB3 port.
With an external USB+eSATA SSD drive, you could still use SATA3 in case
they don't have a USB3 type C port.

and the older motherboards with the USB2 won't have an
NVMe slot

It is unlikely that the orignal m.2 stick is full. More likely is the
customer wants more breathing room. You'd only be backing up the
clusters that were actually inuse. Use a external drive with USB3 and
eSATA ports. Yes, you have to clone twice: once to the external drive,
insert the new m.2 NVMe stick in the mobo, and clone back. More time to
do a backup and a restore, but less risk of borking the original setup.

To get more breathing room on the m.2 stick, you might want to check if
the customer is dumping all their data files on it. Not a good
destination for data due to wear levelling, junction stress during
writes, and that SSDs are self-destructive due to write failure. They
should be moving their data files elsewhere than the device where the OS
and apps run from, like to an internal SATA3 SSD or HDD. Get those data
writes off the primary NVMe drive.

The project involves having a full identical spare computer
in storage. The computer has both an mSATA and and NVMe
slot. The mSATA is populated. I wanted to clone to
the spares NVMe drive as they are twice as fast as mSATA
drives. And then restore the spare computer's original
license


To me, you moving the m.2 stick out of the box into an enclosure before
cloning from it and doing the cloning only after the move incurs too
much risk for the customer.

While you mention doing the in-place clone with the m.2 stick still in
the mobo slot to the USB-NVMe external drive, where's your backup? You
cloned to the USB-NVMe drive, take out the mobo m.2 stick, put in the
cloned m.2 stick, and the computer won't boot or there are other
problems. You put back the original m.2 stick, and still problems. The
working computer now has problems. Where's your backup for recovery?
The scenario sounds fine for a personal scenario, but seems a bit risky
for a customer scenario.

Okay, in this scenario, they only need to backup particular
parts of their data. It is involved, but I have gone through it several
times.

I don't see any of those USB-NVMe enclosures that are designed to be
repeatedly dismantled and reassembled. Not only would you be taking
apart that external case several times, which means you'll increase the
chances of breaking the case or damaging the m.2 slot inside the case,
you'll have to keep reusing the heat spreader. You shouldn't be reusing
the same old thermal pads that came with the external case, so you'll
have to get more thermal pads (and hope they don't cause a fit problem
with the case). Those external NVMe cases are designed to a one-time
build, not for repeated reuse. Not only do those external NVMe cases
not meet your requirement for an external power supply (which you'll
have to check can supply sufficient amperage from the A/C adapter), but
they are not designed for for your use case. Even having to repeatedly
remove and insert m.2 sticks into the same slot and not lose the tiny
screw to hold down the stick means increased risk.

Check out:

https://www.icydock.com/goods.php?id=315
https://www.icydock.com/goods.php?id=303


How many times do you plan on using a USB-NVMe external drive to
facilitate upgrading to a larger m.2 stick on the mobo? If more than
once, those external USB-NVMe enclosures are built for industrial or
commercial use as cloning stations. If you're going to do this 1 to 3
times a year, just suffer with having to do 2 clones/backups. How much
time will it take you to assemble the external USB-NVMe case (put in the
m.2 stick, screw it down, assemble the case, apply the thermal pads,
apply the heat spreader, screw down the heat spreader) and then
disassemble the external case (to move its m.2 stick to the mobo) versus
the time for a single clone (since another clone will still be needed at
a minimum). That is, how much time do you save having to assemble and
disassemble the external case to reduce the clone count to 1 versus
doing 2 clones by using a USB SSD or HDD?

Probably once ever three months or so. Five times for the customer with
the spares

If the customer doesn't want to add an internal SATA-3 SSD drive (for
data and maybe some apps),

Wont' fit. These are mini computers

you sure they don't have another m.2 slot on
their mobo? Mobo kits may come with a heat spreader for the m.2 stick,
but usually supply only one of those, so you'll have to get a heat
spreader for the other m.2 sticks. At Newegg, about a third of their
mobos have only a single m.2 slot, two-thirds have 2 or 3 m.2 slots, but
the customer's mobo might have an unused SATA port. They'd pay you for
your time to assemble the USB-NVMe drive with the bigger NVMe SSD, clone
the m.2 mobo stick to the external USB-NVMe drive, disassemble the
USB-NVMe enclosure to remove the m.2 stick, remove the mobo's m.2 stick,
and slide in the replacement m.2 stick and test the computer still boots
and runs okay. Or they could pay your time to add an internal SATA SSD
to allow expansion there. Adding another internal drive probably takes
less time than just one clone/backup. You could even span the volume
across the m.2 and SSD drives, so they don't see a change or addition of
drive letters, but that means losing some of the speed advantage of the
m.2 NVMe drive for any files that end up on the internal SATA-3 SSD in
the spanned volume.


I am looking forward to the X12 version of mobo's with two NVMe
slots. Thought it gets interesting when you ask if they will support RAID1.

FOR SSD RAID 1, I use the Samsung SATA drives that are
designed for it. I can look them up, if you need the part
nubmers