Classic Shell

On 10/3/2013 8:59 PM, Ed Cryer wrote:
And undermining much of western capitalism.

Compared to the Republicans, Wall Street and the banks, not even a blip.

--
Alias

The only real problems are avarice, anger and stupidity.

On Thu, 03 Oct 2013 21:35:09 +0200, "Alias"
wrote in article l2kgtm$cvd$2
@dont-email.me...

On 10/3/2013 7:36 PM, Zaphod Beeblebrox wrote:
On Thu, 03 Oct 2013 16:54:12 +0200, "Alias"
wrote in article l2k0et$756$2
@dont-email.me...

On 10/3/2013 4:00 PM, Zaphod Beeblebrox wrote:
On Thu, 03 Oct 2013 01:09:30 +0200, "Alias"
wrote in article l2i93f$2e7$1
@dont-email.me...

On 10/2/2013 7:27 PM, Zaphod Beeblebrox wrote:
On Wed, 02 Oct 2013 19:14:36 +0200, "Alias"
wrote in article l2hka2$19r$1
@dont-email.me...

On 10/2/2013 6:23 PM, Ken Springer wrote:
On 10/2/13 10:06 AM, Alias wrote:
On 10/2/2013 5:49 PM, Ken Springer wrote:
On 10/2/13 8:51 AM, Alias wrote:
On 10/2/2013 4:12 PM, Zaphod Beeblebrox wrote:
On Wed, 02 Oct 2013 08:00:38 -0600, "Ken Springer"
wrote in article l2h8u3$52r$1
@speranza.aioe.org...

On 10/2/13 5:00 AM, Ron wrote:
On 10/2/2013 3:42 AM, Ian Jackson wrote:
In message , Ken Blake
writes
On Mon, 30 Sep 2013 03:35:15 -0400, Ron
wrote:

On 8/26/2013 5:06 PM, Ken Blake wrote:
On Mon, 26 Aug 2013 03:35:01 -0500, CRNG

wrote:

snip

As far as I'm concerned, $4.99 is close enough to free. I don't
mind
paying for it.

If you've found it for free, care to share?

snip pirate link

So, you believe in stealing?????

And for a measly $5 even.


Petty theft, a misdemeanor in the USA. Course, some countries like
Spain
have laws that if it's for personal use and not for profit, downloading
from The Pirate Bay is completely legal and not considered theft.
You do
know that this group can be accessed by folks not in the USA or do you?

I do, but taking something that doesn't belong to you is still theft, no
matter how small.



It's only theft if the law says it's theft. Ask MS and Apple what they
took from Xerox. Did they activate before using what they took?

Negative, sir. If you have morals, and live by them, it's theft. The
law just provides consequences acceptable to the majority of society.



Give me a ****ing break and get off your high moral horse. No one
steals, right? Not Wall Street, not the politicians, the oil companies,
the banks?

And that, ladies and gentlemen, is a big part of what is wrong with our
society today - "it's OK for me to steal since those folks did bad
things too! See, I'm entitled!"

Doesn't matter if the law provides you an exemption. Doesn't matter if
someone else is doing wrong. Doesn't matter if you can justify it to
yourself. It is still wrong.


And you're still on your high moral horse as if you were a bloody saint.
How does it feel to be morally perfect?

Never said I was morally perfect.

Then don't throw stones.


Only those without fault can find error in another? That would pretty
well eliminate the entire justice system. Sorry, I don't ascribe to
such nonsense.

Then keep finding fault.



I strive toward that high mark
however, yet I'm constantly aware of my failings. The difference,
apparently, is that I recognize them as failings.


If you hadn't eaten for a week, would you steal food?


So you are saying your theft of software is the moral equivalent of
stealing food for survival? That is ludicrous.


No, I am saying that even an upstanding morally correct saint such as
yourself would steal if the circumstances were right.

I would (and have) done everything in my power to survive without
resorting to theft. But there is a clear difference between stealing
food as a last resort for survival and stealing as a casual means to
satisfy your personal desires.

That said, downloading from the Bay isn't stealing here so your point
is mute.

No, stealing software isn't illegal where you are, but it is still
stealing. And you mean "moot", not mute, but it isn't.

--
Zaphod

"Yeah. Listen, I'm Zaphod Beeblebrox, my father was Zaphod Beeblebrox
the Second, my grandfather Zaphod Beeblebrox the Third..."

"What?"

"There was an accident with a contraceptive and a time machine. Now
concentrate!"

On Thu, 03 Oct 2013 21:37:48 +0200, "Alias"
wrote in article l2kh2l$cvd$3
@dont-email.me...

On 10/3/2013 7:39 PM, Zaphod Beeblebrox wrote:
On Thu, 03 Oct 2013 16:56:17 +0200, "Alias"
wrote in article l2k0iq$756$3
@dont-email.me...

On 10/3/2013 4:29 PM, Zaphod Beeblebrox wrote:
On Thu, 03 Oct 2013 14:54:49 +0200, "Alias"
wrote in article l2jpf3$udd$1
@dont-email.me...

On 10/3/2013 2:48 PM, Ken Springer wrote:
we know you appear to be a thief.


No, it's legal and not theft to use a copy of software, music or videos
where I live. I am not depriving the owners of their software. They
still have it and no one stole it from them.

No, you are depriving them of the fruits of their labor - that is,
payment for the service they provided to you by writing the software,
performing the music, etc.

You're assuming one would buy if one couldn't download it.


No, I'm asserting that you have no moral right to make use of it
without paying for it.

According to the law I do.

The law does not give you the moral right to do anything, sorry.


Whether or not you would pay for it if you
couldn't easily steal it is immaterial.

Actually it isn't. Only rich folks like you would think that way.

Wow, "rich folks like you" - you have no idea who I am and clearly have
no idea what my financial situation is, or ever was. I am by no means
rich, and likely never will be, and I have worked hard to get where I
am.

I have, however, been poor. Dirt poor. Collect aluminum cans and turn
them in for scrap so I could buy food poor. So poor I lived in an
"apartment" that was 1/3 of a garage divided off from the rest with no
heat and the shower was a corrugated fiberglass section bent into a U
shape out the back door with a gravel floor covered over by a wooden
pallet. But I did not steal from the farmer's market down the road even
though I was hungry. I took what meager amount of money I could scrape
together and I bought my food. And I worked hard to better my self and
my circumstances, and not only worked hard but worked with honesty,
integrity, and honor.

And *that*, you sorry excuse for a human being, is the difference
between you and me.

Honesty. Integrity. Honor.

I am done with you.

--
Zaphod

Vell, Zaphod's just zis guy, ya know? - Gag Halfrunt

Alias wrote:
On 10/3/2013 8:13 PM, Gene E. Bloch wrote:
On Thu, 03 Oct 2013 14:54:49 +0200, Alias wrote:

But
we know you appear to be a thief.


No, it's legal and not theft to use a copy of software, music or videos
where I live. I am not depriving the owners of their software. They
still have it and no one stole it from them. Can we add logic impaired
to your naivety?

You *are* denying the creator of the software income from his software.


You are assuming it would be bought if the only way to get it was to pay.


You're assuming that the one who steals it doesn't want it; and that
makes him a mindless thief.

Ed

On Thu, 03 Oct 2013 19:42:00 +0100, Ed Cryer wrote:

He's not throwing stones; he's teaching.
What are you going to tell kids? "Well, it's wrong to steal; except
maybe in circumstance A or possibly a combination of circumstance B with
C (provided that circumstances T and Y have previously occurred)."
No! You teach them the moral normative rule. "It's wrong to steal".

And why do you do that? Because kids come out of the womb knowing no
better. And if you don't teach them otherwise they'll steal and kill and
create a hell on Earth. Little gangster babies, feeding their needs with
antisocial and criminal behaviour.

Just within the past month or so I saw a documentary where they used 2-month
old babies to determine the relative roles of nature versus nurture when it
comes to good and bad behavior, being able to choose one over the other and
being able to recognize it in others. Take it with a grain of salt, but they
concluded that babies are born with morals and a sense of right and wrong.

Like I say, take it with a grain of salt, but if correct, we aren't raising
little gangsters. Wish I had a link. Anyone else see it?

Char Jackson wrote:
On Thu, 03 Oct 2013 19:42:00 +0100, Ed Cryer wrote:

He's not throwing stones; he's teaching.
What are you going to tell kids? "Well, it's wrong to steal; except
maybe in circumstance A or possibly a combination of circumstance B with
C (provided that circumstances T and Y have previously occurred)."
No! You teach them the moral normative rule. "It's wrong to steal".

And why do you do that? Because kids come out of the womb knowing no
better. And if you don't teach them otherwise they'll steal and kill and
create a hell on Earth. Little gangster babies, feeding their needs with
antisocial and criminal behaviour.

Just within the past month or so I saw a documentary where they used 2-month
old babies to determine the relative roles of nature versus nurture when it
comes to good and bad behavior, being able to choose one over the other and
being able to recognize it in others. Take it with a grain of salt, but they
concluded that babies are born with morals and a sense of right and wrong.

Like I say, take it with a grain of salt, but if correct, we aren't raising
little gangsters. Wish I had a link. Anyone else see it?


I didn't see it, but I do hope you're right. Man, that would really give
me a boost.
I've found this;
http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=50151800n

If that's it, say yes and I'll watch it.

Ed

Ed Cryer wrote:


I didn't see it, but I do hope you're right. Man, that would really give
me a boost.
I've found this;
http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=50151800n

If that's it, say yes and I'll watch it.

Ed


It's also occurred to me that it would totally kibosh St Augustine's
view of original sin, and drag a lot of orthodox Christian thinking with it.

Ed

On Thu, 03 Oct 2013 14:54:09 -0400, Marv wrote:

On 9/30/2013 3:35 AM, Ron wrote:
On 8/26/2013 5:06 PM, Ken Blake wrote:
On Mon, 26 Aug 2013 03:35:01 -0500, CRNG
wrote:

I'm a long-time WinXPpro user. I'm wondering how familiar will Win8
with Classic Shell http://www.classicshell.net/ look to me? Will
there still be a long learning curve?


You will find it very similar, but not exactly the same. How long it
will take to get accustomed to it depends on you.

And by the way, as far as I'm concerned Start 8 (not free, but very
inexpensive--only $4.99) will make the Windows 8 interface even more
like the older interfaces, and that's what I recommend.



After using Classic Shell, I will agree that Start 8 is much
better.....especially for free if you can find it

Why do you think Start 8 is much better than Classic Shell.

That question has been asked before, without much of an answer. I think it
simply comes down to personal preference, which is why you should try both
and see which you like better.

On Thu, 3 Oct 2013 16:50:18 -0400, Zaphod Beeblebrox
wrote:

On Thu, 03 Oct 2013 21:37:48 +0200, "Alias"

And *that*, you sorry excuse for a human being, is the difference
between you and me.

Honesty. Integrity. Honor.

I am done with you.


I've been done with him for a long time. Besides his lack of honesty,
integrity, and honor, he's a troll, and he's long been killfiled here.
I recommend that you, and everyone else here, killfile him. Let him
play in his sandbox all by himself, where nobody can hear what he
says.


--
Ken Blake

On Thu, 03 Oct 2013 16:53:52 -0500, Char Jackson
wrote:

On Thu, 03 Oct 2013 14:54:09 -0400, Marv wrote:

On 9/30/2013 3:35 AM, Ron wrote:
On 8/26/2013 5:06 PM, Ken Blake wrote:
On Mon, 26 Aug 2013 03:35:01 -0500, CRNG
wrote:

I'm a long-time WinXPpro user. I'm wondering how familiar will Win8
with Classic Shell http://www.classicshell.net/ look to me? Will
there still be a long learning curve?


You will find it very similar, but not exactly the same. How long it
will take to get accustomed to it depends on you.

And by the way, as far as I'm concerned Start 8 (not free, but very
inexpensive--only $4.99) will make the Windows 8 interface even more
like the older interfaces, and that's what I recommend.



After using Classic Shell, I will agree that Start 8 is much
better.....especially for free if you can find it

Why do you think Start 8 is much better than Classic Shell.

That question has been asked before, without much of an answer. I think it
simply comes down to personal preference, which is why you should try both
and see which you like better.


???? Your last sentence above is what I said here several times and
you castigated me for.

--
Ken Blake

On 10/3/2013 10:30 PM, Zaphod Beeblebrox wrote:
On Thu, 03 Oct 2013 21:35:09 +0200, "Alias"
wrote in article l2kgtm$cvd$2
@dont-email.me...

On 10/3/2013 7:36 PM, Zaphod Beeblebrox wrote:
On Thu, 03 Oct 2013 16:54:12 +0200, "Alias"
wrote in article l2k0et$756$2
@dont-email.me...

On 10/3/2013 4:00 PM, Zaphod Beeblebrox wrote:
On Thu, 03 Oct 2013 01:09:30 +0200, "Alias"
wrote in article l2i93f$2e7$1
@dont-email.me...

On 10/2/2013 7:27 PM, Zaphod Beeblebrox wrote:
On Wed, 02 Oct 2013 19:14:36 +0200, "Alias"
wrote in article l2hka2$19r$1
@dont-email.me...

On 10/2/2013 6:23 PM, Ken Springer wrote:
On 10/2/13 10:06 AM, Alias wrote:
On 10/2/2013 5:49 PM, Ken Springer wrote:
On 10/2/13 8:51 AM, Alias wrote:
On 10/2/2013 4:12 PM, Zaphod Beeblebrox wrote:
On Wed, 02 Oct 2013 08:00:38 -0600, "Ken Springer"
wrote in article l2h8u3$52r$1
@speranza.aioe.org...

On 10/2/13 5:00 AM, Ron wrote:
On 10/2/2013 3:42 AM, Ian Jackson wrote:
In message , Ken Blake
writes
On Mon, 30 Sep 2013 03:35:15 -0400, Ron
wrote:

On 8/26/2013 5:06 PM, Ken Blake wrote:
On Mon, 26 Aug 2013 03:35:01 -0500, CRNG

wrote:

snip

As far as I'm concerned, $4.99 is close enough to free. I don't
mind
paying for it.

If you've found it for free, care to share?

snip pirate link

So, you believe in stealing?????

And for a measly $5 even.


Petty theft, a misdemeanor in the USA. Course, some countries like
Spain
have laws that if it's for personal use and not for profit, downloading
from The Pirate Bay is completely legal and not considered theft.
You do
know that this group can be accessed by folks not in the USA or do you?

I do, but taking something that doesn't belong to you is still theft, no
matter how small.



It's only theft if the law says it's theft. Ask MS and Apple what they
took from Xerox. Did they activate before using what they took?

Negative, sir. If you have morals, and live by them, it's theft. The
law just provides consequences acceptable to the majority of society.



Give me a ****ing break and get off your high moral horse. No one
steals, right? Not Wall Street, not the politicians, the oil companies,
the banks?

And that, ladies and gentlemen, is a big part of what is wrong with our
society today - "it's OK for me to steal since those folks did bad
things too! See, I'm entitled!"

Doesn't matter if the law provides you an exemption. Doesn't matter if
someone else is doing wrong. Doesn't matter if you can justify it to
yourself. It is still wrong.


And you're still on your high moral horse as if you were a bloody saint.
How does it feel to be morally perfect?

Never said I was morally perfect.

Then don't throw stones.


Only those without fault can find error in another? That would pretty
well eliminate the entire justice system. Sorry, I don't ascribe to
such nonsense.

Then keep finding fault.



I strive toward that high mark
however, yet I'm constantly aware of my failings. The difference,
apparently, is that I recognize them as failings.


If you hadn't eaten for a week, would you steal food?


So you are saying your theft of software is the moral equivalent of
stealing food for survival? That is ludicrous.


No, I am saying that even an upstanding morally correct saint such as
yourself would steal if the circumstances were right.

I would (and have) done everything in my power to survive without
resorting to theft. But there is a clear difference between stealing
food as a last resort for survival and stealing as a casual means to
satisfy your personal desires.

Right, I forgot, you're a bloody saint.


That said, downloading from the Bay isn't stealing here so your point
is mute.

No, stealing software isn't illegal where you are, but it is still
stealing.

That's your opinion, one not shared with over a dozen judges.

And you mean "moot", not mute, but it isn't.


I wish your point was mute but I know it's moot. Better?

--
Alias

The only real problems are avarice, anger and stupidity.

On 10/3/2013 10:50 PM, Zaphod Beeblebrox wrote:
I am done with you.

Good.

--
Alias

The only real problems are avarice, anger and stupidity.

On 10/3/2013 11:22 PM, Ed Cryer wrote:
Alias wrote:
On 10/3/2013 8:13 PM, Gene E. Bloch wrote:
On Thu, 03 Oct 2013 14:54:49 +0200, Alias wrote:

But
we know you appear to be a thief.


No, it's legal and not theft to use a copy of software, music or videos
where I live. I am not depriving the owners of their software. They
still have it and no one stole it from them. Can we add logic impaired
to your naivety?

You *are* denying the creator of the software income from his software.


You are assuming it would be bought if the only way to get it was to pay.


You're assuming that the one who steals it doesn't want it; and that
makes him a mindless thief.

Ed


No, can't afford it. Not Start8, of course, but Photoshop or Creative
Suite is priced in the hundreds and if someone wanted to pull himself
out of poverty by using those programs along with some other pricey
programs like Office, you would throw that person in jail and feel all
"moral" about it.

Want something else to chew on? In Spain, any theft, real theft, less
than 400 Euros is not a crime. That's about 600 USD. In the states, if
someone stole because they were poor and hungry, they would be thrown
into one of the worst prison systems in the world and their life would
basically be over. How moral is that?

--
Alias

The only real problems are avarice, anger and stupidity.

On Thu, 03 Oct 2013 22:30:14 +0100, Ed Cryer wrote:

Char Jackson wrote:
On Thu, 03 Oct 2013 19:42:00 +0100, Ed Cryer wrote:

He's not throwing stones; he's teaching.
What are you going to tell kids? "Well, it's wrong to steal; except
maybe in circumstance A or possibly a combination of circumstance B with
C (provided that circumstances T and Y have previously occurred)."
No! You teach them the moral normative rule. "It's wrong to steal".

And why do you do that? Because kids come out of the womb knowing no
better. And if you don't teach them otherwise they'll steal and kill and
create a hell on Earth. Little gangster babies, feeding their needs with
antisocial and criminal behaviour.

Just within the past month or so I saw a documentary where they used 2-month
old babies to determine the relative roles of nature versus nurture when it
comes to good and bad behavior, being able to choose one over the other and
being able to recognize it in others. Take it with a grain of salt, but they
concluded that babies are born with morals and a sense of right and wrong.

Like I say, take it with a grain of salt, but if correct, we aren't raising
little gangsters. Wish I had a link. Anyone else see it?


I didn't see it, but I do hope you're right. Man, that would really give
me a boost.
I've found this;
http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=50151800n

If that's it, say yes and I'll watch it.

Yes, that's the one I was thinking of.

On Thu, 03 Oct 2013 15:35:54 -0700, Ken Blake wrote:

On Thu, 3 Oct 2013 16:50:18 -0400, Zaphod Beeblebrox
wrote:

On Thu, 03 Oct 2013 21:37:48 +0200, "Alias"

And *that*, you sorry excuse for a human being, is the difference
between you and me.

Honesty. Integrity. Honor.

I am done with you.

I've been done with him for a long time. Besides his lack of honesty,
integrity, and honor, he's a troll, and he's long been killfiled here.
I recommend that you, and everyone else here, killfile him. Let him
play in his sandbox all by himself, where nobody can hear what he
says.

I have found some of Alias's posts to be of some use, and have never
killfiled him (anyway, I don't often plonk people). Still, I find this
subthread is making me lose some of my vestigial respect for him.

I also find this subthread tedious, but I've been following it anyway
:-)

Doctor: Does it hurt when you read this?

Gino. Yes.

Doctor. Well, then stop reading it.

Gino. No.

--
Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)