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#16
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USB3 indicator
On Fri, 30 May 2014 03:49:40 -0400, AlDrake wrote:
On 5/29/2014 10:48 PM, Gene E. Bloch wrote: On Thu, 29 May 2014 22:31:21 -0400, AlDrake wrote: On 5/29/2014 8:40 PM, Gene E. Bloch wrote: On Thu, 29 May 2014 17:43:17 -0400, AlDrake wrote: Can anyone shed some light on windows 7 tool that alerts connecting to a USB3 can achieve faster access. I get this sometimes even when I am connecting a USB3 device but win7 doesn't agree. Can this utility be accessed to check connections? So far the only way I can tell is viewing the speed of files being transferred. Al. It's apparently installed by the driver installation for your PCIe card. At least that's how I got it. I have a directory C:\VIA_XHCI with usb3Monitor.exe in it. It's started at boot time. OK, that's out of date. My newer card has installed that program in C:\Program Files\via xhci uasp utility\usb3monitor.exe It's initiated in HKLM\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Run I guess I'll remove the first folder from the root since it's not called any more. My guess is that if you disable the above startup command, you won't do any damage. Use Autoruns to do it safely; you can reinstate it easily from there if it creates a problem. I guess I'll need to read the help files for Autorun. In the registry location you refer to I only see 6 entries and none seem like USB3 related. Acronis Scheduler2 Service CmPCIaudio NvBackend Nvtmru ShadowPlay Windows Mobile Device Center I have in my program folder Western Digital USB3 Host controller Utility that when I open it displays NEC Electronics USB 3.0 Host Controller Everything seems set up right AFAICS. Start Autoruns and wait for it to finish loading (it will say "Ready" at the bottom of its screen). In Autoruns, Search (Ctrl-f works) for usb3monitor. If you have it, that will locate it for you. If you don't have it, then your message comes from somewhere other than where mine comes from. You could also look in the Task Manager to see whether it's running. Since my first post, I disabled my USB3Monitor to no apparent ill effect. Nothing comes up with that search. I'll try more later tonight after work. Thanks again Al Don't bother :-) Apparently I sent you on a wild goose chase - sorry. There might be a similar program with your setup, but unfortunately, it doesn't have the same name as mine. -- Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch) |
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#17
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USB3 indicator
On 5/30/2014 2:06 PM, Gene E. Bloch wrote:
On Fri, 30 May 2014 03:49:40 -0400, AlDrake wrote: On 5/29/2014 10:48 PM, Gene E. Bloch wrote: On Thu, 29 May 2014 22:31:21 -0400, AlDrake wrote: On 5/29/2014 8:40 PM, Gene E. Bloch wrote: On Thu, 29 May 2014 17:43:17 -0400, AlDrake wrote: Can anyone shed some light on windows 7 tool that alerts connecting to a USB3 can achieve faster access. I get this sometimes even when I am connecting a USB3 device but win7 doesn't agree. Can this utility be accessed to check connections? So far the only way I can tell is viewing the speed of files being transferred. Al. It's apparently installed by the driver installation for your PCIe card. At least that's how I got it. I have a directory C:\VIA_XHCI with usb3Monitor.exe in it. It's started at boot time. OK, that's out of date. My newer card has installed that program in C:\Program Files\via xhci uasp utility\usb3monitor.exe It's initiated in HKLM\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Run I guess I'll remove the first folder from the root since it's not called any more. My guess is that if you disable the above startup command, you won't do any damage. Use Autoruns to do it safely; you can reinstate it easily from there if it creates a problem. I guess I'll need to read the help files for Autorun. In the registry location you refer to I only see 6 entries and none seem like USB3 related. Acronis Scheduler2 Service CmPCIaudio NvBackend Nvtmru ShadowPlay Windows Mobile Device Center I have in my program folder Western Digital USB3 Host controller Utility that when I open it displays NEC Electronics USB 3.0 Host Controller Everything seems set up right AFAICS. Start Autoruns and wait for it to finish loading (it will say "Ready" at the bottom of its screen). In Autoruns, Search (Ctrl-f works) for usb3monitor. If you have it, that will locate it for you. If you don't have it, then your message comes from somewhere other than where mine comes from. You could also look in the Task Manager to see whether it's running. Since my first post, I disabled my USB3Monitor to no apparent ill effect. Nothing comes up with that search. I'll try more later tonight after work. Thanks again Al Don't bother :-) Apparently I sent you on a wild goose chase - sorry. There might be a similar program with your setup, but unfortunately, it doesn't have the same name as mine. Ok, I'll find what I need to know. I don't plan on giving up that easily. Thanks again Gene. Al |
#18
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USB3 indicator
On 5/30/2014 6:47 AM, Paul wrote:
AlDrake wrote: On 5/30/2014 3:07 AM, Paul wrote: AlDrake wrote: On 5/29/2014 8:10 PM, Paul wrote: AlDrake wrote: Can anyone shed some light on windows 7 tool that alerts connecting to a USB3 can achieve faster access. I get this sometimes even when I am connecting a USB3 device but win7 doesn't agree. Can this utility be accessed to check connections? So far the only way I can tell is viewing the speed of files being transferred. Al. A tool for displaying that info would be UVCView from Microsoft. The older version used to be relatively easy to get. The newer version required downloading some SDK DVD and picking it out of there. I doubt you would enjoy that utility, because the "output isn't in English". It's a developer tool. The scheme works something like this. 1) USB devices have a configuration space. Early in PNP, the config space is fetched. In the space is a field that says "my max speed is USB3" or "my max speed is USB2". 2) At the same time, the low level stuff starts negotiation. On the USB3 connector on the back of your computer, there are two sets of pins. If both sets of pins "touch", the negotiation procedure notes that the USB3 set are the fastest one. And the hardware plumbing uses those pins. So let's review how it can fail. 1) Plug a USB3 into a USB2 plug. Config says "I'm USB3". Negotiation leads to a USB2 connection (as only those pins are touching on a USB2 connector on the back of your computer). The USB2 connector only has the four pins, not all nine pins. The OS says "This device could go faster" if and only if at least one USB3 connector is available on the back of the computer, and the speed mismatch has been noted. If the computer had only USB2 ports, and you plug in a USB3 device, there is no complaint there, because there is no potential for improvement (by warning the user to move the device to another port). 2) Plug a USB3 device into a USB3 plug. But, don't push it all the way in. The USB2 pins touch. The USB3 do not touch. We get the same result as (1), namely a claim that the device could go faster. But the problem in this case, is the electrical contacts. If this happens to you, don't over-react. Jamming the thing in hard (as I did) is a mistake. There's a reason this is happening... 3) Plug a USB3 device into a USB3 plug and seat it fully. Now everything works, USB3 rate is negotiated which matches the USB3 config space info. Everyone is happy, no dialog appears. I know all about this contact problem on USB3. 1) Paul stupidly buys a USB3 key with a *plastic* barrel on it. The USB3 port on the computer is *metal*. Paul should have known better. 2) The engineering of the plastic was not done right. There is improper connector capture during insertion, leading to one of the USB3 key pins snapping off! Now instead of 9 pins, my poor USB3 key has only 8 pins. 3) Now the device can never again run at USB3 speed. I am doomed to always see that dialog with that USB3 key. Moral of the story, is *buy only USB3 keys with metal barrels*. Do not buy the plastic ones. I have opened the device in question, and I can't even replace the connector with a proper metal one. Because the contact pattern used in the design, is so **** poor. I can't even remove the assembly, because it's SMT with totally shrouded solderable mechanical support points. Miserable *******s! I would need to grind the ******* off. And finding a replacement miniature contact assembly isn't going to happen - it's custom. I had to use my magnifying glass just to see this stuff. The operating system, by giving you that dialog, is giving you all the hints you need. UVCView would just confirm a few things. But if the pins aren't touching, the utility doesn't say anything specific about that. The low level driver does the negotiating, and I don't think there is any log of what happened there. The dialog box is all the proof you need that something isn't right. HTH, Paul Thanks for the great breakdown Paul. I don't have any keys. I only use drives but just now I noticed I get the warning when I plug in my Transcend USB3 hub even with no drives attached. Also I get faster file transfers when I move files from one internal HDD to another. Speeds of around 130KM/sec. but I guess that is to be expected. When I transfer files from one external Seagate to another I get speeds of one third that. Cables supplied with drives must be making connection as I don't get a warning, just very slow transfer. I'm still not sure what you mean by plastic connector. Are there any pictures online of these? I found this page with info on USB3 detection. This is for Windows 8, so isn't likely to be exactly the same on Windows 7. http://blogs.msdn.com/b/usbcoreblog/...uperspeed.aspx The interesting part is, there is a claim of an updated USBView application in the WDK (Windows Driver Kit). But it requires registration and downloading Visual Studio 2013 or something (which would also require registration). So it's some kind of strip tease for sure. I've had cases in the past, where a certain 25KB utility was promised in some 1GB ot 2GB DVD download, only to find in the release notes of the completely downloaded DVD, that the tool is not included. And the web page announcing it was full of ****. The developers at Microsoft, just *love* this game. Why can't the latest USBView or UVCView just be put on its own web page ? Linux did a pretty good job of displaying three test cases I set up for USB3, but I still don't believe the results. It seems to be telling me, the USB3 stick I believe is functioning properly, lacks proper USB3 identifiers inside. Like the config information isn't the right type for USB3. Linux has tools such as "hwinfo", as in "hwinfo --disk" as well as "lsusb -v" for verbose USB output. That's where I could see that my one good USB3 stick is missing a BOS structure, and I don't know why that is. Paul I think first I need to find a hub that delivers that it's supposed to. Maybe I'll even try another PCIe card as well. OK, found a software gem for you. From our good friend Uwe, the "USB guy". I was looking for a compiled version of the Windows 8 USBView, and I had the source (it's a demo app from Microsoft, with no readily available compiled download). I happened to run into a page from Uwe's site, and he took that source code, fixed it up a bit (like all developers do), and this is the result. http://www.uwe-sieber.de/files/usbtreeview.zip Now I can run my three test cases, and show the results. This is USB3 on USB3 with all pins intact. The stick benchmarks poorly, because it's just got a lousy flash chip in it. bsdusb reports 3.00 and speed reports "SuperSpeed". http://i61.tinypic.com/i26qf6.gif This is USB3 on USB3 with a broken USB3 pin. Instead of nine pins, only eight pins are working, and only the USB2 section is fully intact. Notice that the bcdusb field reports 2.10, even though if the pin was intact the device would be reporting 3.00. I have no idea why they did this, except to take into account, which of the two interfaces were intact. If the USB2 section was broke (and the USB3 section was intact), I think detection would fail entirely. http://i58.tinypic.com/25psuq0.gif And this one is USB3 on a USB2 port. Which reports like the previous (broken pin) case. The bcdusb capability field reports 2.10. And the port runs at 480Mbit/sec. http://i59.tinypic.com/t0giu9.gif Isn't it lucky now, that I have a $60 USB key with a broken pin on it ? :-( I could do this demo. HTH, Paul Nice find Paul. Now I can see that my Seagate +++++++++++++++++ Device Information ++++++++++++++++++ Device Description : USB Mass Storage Device Device ID : USB\VID_0BC2&PID_3312\NA4KB7D1 Driver KeyName : {36fc9e60-c465-11cf-8056-444553540000}\0111 (GUID_DEVCLASS_USB) Driver : C:\Windows\system32\DRIVERS\USBSTOR.SYS (Version: 6.1.7601.17577 Date: 2006-06-21) Driver Inf : C:\Windows\INF\usbstor.inf Legacy BusType : PNPBus Class : USB Service : USBSTOR Enumerator : USB Location Info : Port_#0005.Hub_#0008 Container ID : {c5d05e46-5542-58be-a22e-1961f1936ef8} Manufacturer Info : Compatible USB storage device Capabilities : Removable, UniqueID, RawDeviceOK, SurpriseRemovalOK Address : 0 (*!*ERROR Should be equal to the port number) Problem Code : 0 Power State : D0 (supported: D0, D1, D2, D3, wake from D0, wake from D2) Child Device 1 : Disk drive Device ID : USBSTOR\DISK&VEN_SEAGATE&PROD_EXPANSION_DESK&REV_0 740\NA4KB7D1&0 Class : DiskDrive Volume : \\?\Volume{541d74f2-db97-11e3-b411-000a3a7c7854}\ Kernel Name : \Device\HarddiskVolume5 Mountpoint : F:\ Is showing this: ---------------- Connection Information --------------- Connection Index : 0x01 Connection Status : 0x01 (DeviceConnected) Current Config Value : 0x01 Device Address : 0x02 Is Hub : 0x00 (no) Number Of Open Pipes : 0x02 (2) Device Bus Speed : 0x02 (High-Speed) Pipe0ScheduleOffset : 0x00 (0) Pipe1ScheduleOffset : 0x00 (0) For some reason..............??? |
#19
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USB3 indicator
AlDrake wrote:
On 5/30/2014 6:47 AM, Paul wrote: AlDrake wrote: On 5/30/2014 3:07 AM, Paul wrote: AlDrake wrote: On 5/29/2014 8:10 PM, Paul wrote: AlDrake wrote: Can anyone shed some light on windows 7 tool that alerts connecting to a USB3 can achieve faster access. I get this sometimes even when I am connecting a USB3 device but win7 doesn't agree. Can this utility be accessed to check connections? So far the only way I can tell is viewing the speed of files being transferred. Al. A tool for displaying that info would be UVCView from Microsoft. The older version used to be relatively easy to get. The newer version required downloading some SDK DVD and picking it out of there. I doubt you would enjoy that utility, because the "output isn't in English". It's a developer tool. The scheme works something like this. 1) USB devices have a configuration space. Early in PNP, the config space is fetched. In the space is a field that says "my max speed is USB3" or "my max speed is USB2". 2) At the same time, the low level stuff starts negotiation. On the USB3 connector on the back of your computer, there are two sets of pins. If both sets of pins "touch", the negotiation procedure notes that the USB3 set are the fastest one. And the hardware plumbing uses those pins. So let's review how it can fail. 1) Plug a USB3 into a USB2 plug. Config says "I'm USB3". Negotiation leads to a USB2 connection (as only those pins are touching on a USB2 connector on the back of your computer). The USB2 connector only has the four pins, not all nine pins. The OS says "This device could go faster" if and only if at least one USB3 connector is available on the back of the computer, and the speed mismatch has been noted. If the computer had only USB2 ports, and you plug in a USB3 device, there is no complaint there, because there is no potential for improvement (by warning the user to move the device to another port). 2) Plug a USB3 device into a USB3 plug. But, don't push it all the way in. The USB2 pins touch. The USB3 do not touch. We get the same result as (1), namely a claim that the device could go faster. But the problem in this case, is the electrical contacts. If this happens to you, don't over-react. Jamming the thing in hard (as I did) is a mistake. There's a reason this is happening... 3) Plug a USB3 device into a USB3 plug and seat it fully. Now everything works, USB3 rate is negotiated which matches the USB3 config space info. Everyone is happy, no dialog appears. I know all about this contact problem on USB3. 1) Paul stupidly buys a USB3 key with a *plastic* barrel on it. The USB3 port on the computer is *metal*. Paul should have known better. 2) The engineering of the plastic was not done right. There is improper connector capture during insertion, leading to one of the USB3 key pins snapping off! Now instead of 9 pins, my poor USB3 key has only 8 pins. 3) Now the device can never again run at USB3 speed. I am doomed to always see that dialog with that USB3 key. Moral of the story, is *buy only USB3 keys with metal barrels*. Do not buy the plastic ones. I have opened the device in question, and I can't even replace the connector with a proper metal one. Because the contact pattern used in the design, is so **** poor. I can't even remove the assembly, because it's SMT with totally shrouded solderable mechanical support points. Miserable *******s! I would need to grind the ******* off. And finding a replacement miniature contact assembly isn't going to happen - it's custom. I had to use my magnifying glass just to see this stuff. The operating system, by giving you that dialog, is giving you all the hints you need. UVCView would just confirm a few things. But if the pins aren't touching, the utility doesn't say anything specific about that. The low level driver does the negotiating, and I don't think there is any log of what happened there. The dialog box is all the proof you need that something isn't right. HTH, Paul Thanks for the great breakdown Paul. I don't have any keys. I only use drives but just now I noticed I get the warning when I plug in my Transcend USB3 hub even with no drives attached. Also I get faster file transfers when I move files from one internal HDD to another. Speeds of around 130KM/sec. but I guess that is to be expected. When I transfer files from one external Seagate to another I get speeds of one third that. Cables supplied with drives must be making connection as I don't get a warning, just very slow transfer. I'm still not sure what you mean by plastic connector. Are there any pictures online of these? I found this page with info on USB3 detection. This is for Windows 8, so isn't likely to be exactly the same on Windows 7. http://blogs.msdn.com/b/usbcoreblog/...uperspeed.aspx The interesting part is, there is a claim of an updated USBView application in the WDK (Windows Driver Kit). But it requires registration and downloading Visual Studio 2013 or something (which would also require registration). So it's some kind of strip tease for sure. I've had cases in the past, where a certain 25KB utility was promised in some 1GB ot 2GB DVD download, only to find in the release notes of the completely downloaded DVD, that the tool is not included. And the web page announcing it was full of ****. The developers at Microsoft, just *love* this game. Why can't the latest USBView or UVCView just be put on its own web page ? Linux did a pretty good job of displaying three test cases I set up for USB3, but I still don't believe the results. It seems to be telling me, the USB3 stick I believe is functioning properly, lacks proper USB3 identifiers inside. Like the config information isn't the right type for USB3. Linux has tools such as "hwinfo", as in "hwinfo --disk" as well as "lsusb -v" for verbose USB output. That's where I could see that my one good USB3 stick is missing a BOS structure, and I don't know why that is. Paul I think first I need to find a hub that delivers that it's supposed to. Maybe I'll even try another PCIe card as well. OK, found a software gem for you. From our good friend Uwe, the "USB guy". I was looking for a compiled version of the Windows 8 USBView, and I had the source (it's a demo app from Microsoft, with no readily available compiled download). I happened to run into a page from Uwe's site, and he took that source code, fixed it up a bit (like all developers do), and this is the result. http://www.uwe-sieber.de/files/usbtreeview.zip Now I can run my three test cases, and show the results. This is USB3 on USB3 with all pins intact. The stick benchmarks poorly, because it's just got a lousy flash chip in it. bsdusb reports 3.00 and speed reports "SuperSpeed". http://i61.tinypic.com/i26qf6.gif This is USB3 on USB3 with a broken USB3 pin. Instead of nine pins, only eight pins are working, and only the USB2 section is fully intact. Notice that the bcdusb field reports 2.10, even though if the pin was intact the device would be reporting 3.00. I have no idea why they did this, except to take into account, which of the two interfaces were intact. If the USB2 section was broke (and the USB3 section was intact), I think detection would fail entirely. http://i58.tinypic.com/25psuq0.gif And this one is USB3 on a USB2 port. Which reports like the previous (broken pin) case. The bcdusb capability field reports 2.10. And the port runs at 480Mbit/sec. http://i59.tinypic.com/t0giu9.gif Isn't it lucky now, that I have a $60 USB key with a broken pin on it ? :-( I could do this demo. HTH, Paul Nice find Paul. Now I can see that my Seagate +++++++++++++++++ Device Information ++++++++++++++++++ Device Description : USB Mass Storage Device Device ID : USB\VID_0BC2&PID_3312\NA4KB7D1 Driver KeyName : {36fc9e60-c465-11cf-8056-444553540000}\0111 (GUID_DEVCLASS_USB) Driver : C:\Windows\system32\DRIVERS\USBSTOR.SYS (Version: 6.1.7601.17577 Date: 2006-06-21) Driver Inf : C:\Windows\INF\usbstor.inf Legacy BusType : PNPBus Class : USB Service : USBSTOR Enumerator : USB Location Info : Port_#0005.Hub_#0008 Container ID : {c5d05e46-5542-58be-a22e-1961f1936ef8} Manufacturer Info : Compatible USB storage device Capabilities : Removable, UniqueID, RawDeviceOK, SurpriseRemovalOK Address : 0 (*!*ERROR Should be equal to the port number) Problem Code : 0 Power State : D0 (supported: D0, D1, D2, D3, wake from D0, wake from D2) Child Device 1 : Disk drive Device ID : USBSTOR\DISK&VEN_SEAGATE&PROD_EXPANSION_DESK&REV_0 740\NA4KB7D1&0 Class : DiskDrive Volume : \\?\Volume{541d74f2-db97-11e3-b411-000a3a7c7854}\ Kernel Name : \Device\HarddiskVolume5 Mountpoint : F:\ Is showing this: ---------------- Connection Information --------------- Connection Index : 0x01 Connection Status : 0x01 (DeviceConnected) Current Config Value : 0x01 Device Address : 0x02 Is Hub : 0x00 (no) Number Of Open Pipes : 0x02 (2) Device Bus Speed : 0x02 (High-Speed) Pipe0ScheduleOffset : 0x00 (0) Pipe1ScheduleOffset : 0x00 (0) For some reason..............??? Your Device Bus Speed is High Speed or USB2 480mbit/sec rate. Limited to 35MB/sec or so on a hard drive. But your info lacks a bcdusb field. A value of 2.10 says you have a USB3 device where the USB3 pins don't touch or the USB3 driver is missing or something. A value of 3.00 says your peripheral is USB3 and all the pins are touching and the port is USB3 as well. Have a look at your bcdusb. If it is 2.10, start looking at the port description in the TreeView (left hand column), that the device is actually on a USB3 port. In my example photos, you can see my add-in Renesas chip hosts two of the three USB keys. Check to see what is hosting your disk drive at the moment, as it may explain only getting bcdusb of 2.10. Paul |
#20
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USB3 indicator
On 5/30/2014 8:32 PM, Paul wrote:
AlDrake wrote: On 5/30/2014 6:47 AM, Paul wrote: AlDrake wrote: On 5/30/2014 3:07 AM, Paul wrote: AlDrake wrote: On 5/29/2014 8:10 PM, Paul wrote: AlDrake wrote: Can anyone shed some light on windows 7 tool that alerts connecting to a USB3 can achieve faster access. I get this sometimes even when I am connecting a USB3 device but win7 doesn't agree. Can this utility be accessed to check connections? So far the only way I can tell is viewing the speed of files being transferred. Al. A tool for displaying that info would be UVCView from Microsoft. The older version used to be relatively easy to get. The newer version required downloading some SDK DVD and picking it out of there. I doubt you would enjoy that utility, because the "output isn't in English". It's a developer tool. The scheme works something like this. 1) USB devices have a configuration space. Early in PNP, the config space is fetched. In the space is a field that says "my max speed is USB3" or "my max speed is USB2". 2) At the same time, the low level stuff starts negotiation. On the USB3 connector on the back of your computer, there are two sets of pins. If both sets of pins "touch", the negotiation procedure notes that the USB3 set are the fastest one. And the hardware plumbing uses those pins. So let's review how it can fail. 1) Plug a USB3 into a USB2 plug. Config says "I'm USB3". Negotiation leads to a USB2 connection (as only those pins are touching on a USB2 connector on the back of your computer). The USB2 connector only has the four pins, not all nine pins. The OS says "This device could go faster" if and only if at least one USB3 connector is available on the back of the computer, and the speed mismatch has been noted. If the computer had only USB2 ports, and you plug in a USB3 device, there is no complaint there, because there is no potential for improvement (by warning the user to move the device to another port). 2) Plug a USB3 device into a USB3 plug. But, don't push it all the way in. The USB2 pins touch. The USB3 do not touch. We get the same result as (1), namely a claim that the device could go faster. But the problem in this case, is the electrical contacts. If this happens to you, don't over-react. Jamming the thing in hard (as I did) is a mistake. There's a reason this is happening... 3) Plug a USB3 device into a USB3 plug and seat it fully. Now everything works, USB3 rate is negotiated which matches the USB3 config space info. Everyone is happy, no dialog appears. I know all about this contact problem on USB3. 1) Paul stupidly buys a USB3 key with a *plastic* barrel on it. The USB3 port on the computer is *metal*. Paul should have known better. 2) The engineering of the plastic was not done right. There is improper connector capture during insertion, leading to one of the USB3 key pins snapping off! Now instead of 9 pins, my poor USB3 key has only 8 pins. 3) Now the device can never again run at USB3 speed. I am doomed to always see that dialog with that USB3 key. Moral of the story, is *buy only USB3 keys with metal barrels*. Do not buy the plastic ones. I have opened the device in question, and I can't even replace the connector with a proper metal one. Because the contact pattern used in the design, is so **** poor. I can't even remove the assembly, because it's SMT with totally shrouded solderable mechanical support points. Miserable *******s! I would need to grind the ******* off. And finding a replacement miniature contact assembly isn't going to happen - it's custom. I had to use my magnifying glass just to see this stuff. The operating system, by giving you that dialog, is giving you all the hints you need. UVCView would just confirm a few things. But if the pins aren't touching, the utility doesn't say anything specific about that. The low level driver does the negotiating, and I don't think there is any log of what happened there. The dialog box is all the proof you need that something isn't right. HTH, Paul Thanks for the great breakdown Paul. I don't have any keys. I only use drives but just now I noticed I get the warning when I plug in my Transcend USB3 hub even with no drives attached. Also I get faster file transfers when I move files from one internal HDD to another. Speeds of around 130KM/sec. but I guess that is to be expected. When I transfer files from one external Seagate to another I get speeds of one third that. Cables supplied with drives must be making connection as I don't get a warning, just very slow transfer. I'm still not sure what you mean by plastic connector. Are there any pictures online of these? I found this page with info on USB3 detection. This is for Windows 8, so isn't likely to be exactly the same on Windows 7. http://blogs.msdn.com/b/usbcoreblog/...uperspeed.aspx The interesting part is, there is a claim of an updated USBView application in the WDK (Windows Driver Kit). But it requires registration and downloading Visual Studio 2013 or something (which would also require registration). So it's some kind of strip tease for sure. I've had cases in the past, where a certain 25KB utility was promised in some 1GB ot 2GB DVD download, only to find in the release notes of the completely downloaded DVD, that the tool is not included. And the web page announcing it was full of ****. The developers at Microsoft, just *love* this game. Why can't the latest USBView or UVCView just be put on its own web page ? Linux did a pretty good job of displaying three test cases I set up for USB3, but I still don't believe the results. It seems to be telling me, the USB3 stick I believe is functioning properly, lacks proper USB3 identifiers inside. Like the config information isn't the right type for USB3. Linux has tools such as "hwinfo", as in "hwinfo --disk" as well as "lsusb -v" for verbose USB output. That's where I could see that my one good USB3 stick is missing a BOS structure, and I don't know why that is. Paul I think first I need to find a hub that delivers that it's supposed to. Maybe I'll even try another PCIe card as well. OK, found a software gem for you. From our good friend Uwe, the "USB guy". I was looking for a compiled version of the Windows 8 USBView, and I had the source (it's a demo app from Microsoft, with no readily available compiled download). I happened to run into a page from Uwe's site, and he took that source code, fixed it up a bit (like all developers do), and this is the result. http://www.uwe-sieber.de/files/usbtreeview.zip Now I can run my three test cases, and show the results. This is USB3 on USB3 with all pins intact. The stick benchmarks poorly, because it's just got a lousy flash chip in it. bsdusb reports 3.00 and speed reports "SuperSpeed". http://i61.tinypic.com/i26qf6.gif This is USB3 on USB3 with a broken USB3 pin. Instead of nine pins, only eight pins are working, and only the USB2 section is fully intact. Notice that the bcdusb field reports 2.10, even though if the pin was intact the device would be reporting 3.00. I have no idea why they did this, except to take into account, which of the two interfaces were intact. If the USB2 section was broke (and the USB3 section was intact), I think detection would fail entirely. http://i58.tinypic.com/25psuq0.gif And this one is USB3 on a USB2 port. Which reports like the previous (broken pin) case. The bcdusb capability field reports 2.10. And the port runs at 480Mbit/sec. http://i59.tinypic.com/t0giu9.gif Isn't it lucky now, that I have a $60 USB key with a broken pin on it ? :-( I could do this demo. HTH, Paul Nice find Paul. Now I can see that my Seagate +++++++++++++++++ Device Information ++++++++++++++++++ Device Description : USB Mass Storage Device Device ID : USB\VID_0BC2&PID_3312\NA4KB7D1 Driver KeyName : {36fc9e60-c465-11cf-8056-444553540000}\0111 (GUID_DEVCLASS_USB) Driver : C:\Windows\system32\DRIVERS\USBSTOR.SYS (Version: 6.1.7601.17577 Date: 2006-06-21) Driver Inf : C:\Windows\INF\usbstor.inf Legacy BusType : PNPBus Class : USB Service : USBSTOR Enumerator : USB Location Info : Port_#0005.Hub_#0008 Container ID : {c5d05e46-5542-58be-a22e-1961f1936ef8} Manufacturer Info : Compatible USB storage device Capabilities : Removable, UniqueID, RawDeviceOK, SurpriseRemovalOK Address : 0 (*!*ERROR Should be equal to the port number) Problem Code : 0 Power State : D0 (supported: D0, D1, D2, D3, wake from D0, wake from D2) Child Device 1 : Disk drive Device ID : USBSTOR\DISK&VEN_SEAGATE&PROD_EXPANSION_DESK&REV_0 740\NA4KB7D1&0 Class : DiskDrive Volume : \\?\Volume{541d74f2-db97-11e3-b411-000a3a7c7854}\ Kernel Name : \Device\HarddiskVolume5 Mountpoint : F:\ Is showing this: ---------------- Connection Information --------------- Connection Index : 0x01 Connection Status : 0x01 (DeviceConnected) Current Config Value : 0x01 Device Address : 0x02 Is Hub : 0x00 (no) Number Of Open Pipes : 0x02 (2) Device Bus Speed : 0x02 (High-Speed) Pipe0ScheduleOffset : 0x00 (0) Pipe1ScheduleOffset : 0x00 (0) For some reason..............??? Your Device Bus Speed is High Speed or USB2 480mbit/sec rate. Limited to 35MB/sec or so on a hard drive. But your info lacks a bcdusb field. A value of 2.10 says you have a USB3 device where the USB3 pins don't touch or the USB3 driver is missing or something. A value of 3.00 says your peripheral is USB3 and all the pins are touching and the port is USB3 as well. Have a look at your bcdusb. If it is 2.10, start looking at the port description in the TreeView (left hand column), that the device is actually on a USB3 port. In my example photos, you can see my add-in Renesas chip hosts two of the three USB keys. Check to see what is hosting your disk drive at the moment, as it may explain only getting bcdusb of 2.10. Paul I think I have to back up and start over with installing the PCIe card and the hub again. There are errors showing. I may even look for a different hub and card. My newer system shows lightning speed so maybe it's just time to put this older one on the shelf and make room for a new build. I've been looking for an excuse to do that for some time now. Pentium Dual-Core E6800 @ 3.33Ghz 8Gigs DDR2 Gigabyte P35-S3G 266MHz clock Win7 Ultimate 64bit GeForce GTX 260 My AMD Phenom II X6 1055T 2,8 GHz 3300 MHz ASUS M4a87TD/USB3 16Gig DDR3 GeForce GTXX 550 Ti Isn't even all that new but it does a lot better and it shows 7.3 WEI |
#21
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USB3 indicator
AlDrake wrote:
On 5/30/2014 8:32 PM, Paul wrote: AlDrake wrote: On 5/30/2014 6:47 AM, Paul wrote: AlDrake wrote: On 5/30/2014 3:07 AM, Paul wrote: AlDrake wrote: On 5/29/2014 8:10 PM, Paul wrote: AlDrake wrote: Can anyone shed some light on windows 7 tool that alerts connecting to a USB3 can achieve faster access. I get this sometimes even when I am connecting a USB3 device but win7 doesn't agree. Can this utility be accessed to check connections? So far the only way I can tell is viewing the speed of files being transferred. Al. A tool for displaying that info would be UVCView from Microsoft. The older version used to be relatively easy to get. The newer version required downloading some SDK DVD and picking it out of there. I doubt you would enjoy that utility, because the "output isn't in English". It's a developer tool. The scheme works something like this. 1) USB devices have a configuration space. Early in PNP, the config space is fetched. In the space is a field that says "my max speed is USB3" or "my max speed is USB2". 2) At the same time, the low level stuff starts negotiation. On the USB3 connector on the back of your computer, there are two sets of pins. If both sets of pins "touch", the negotiation procedure notes that the USB3 set are the fastest one. And the hardware plumbing uses those pins. So let's review how it can fail. 1) Plug a USB3 into a USB2 plug. Config says "I'm USB3". Negotiation leads to a USB2 connection (as only those pins are touching on a USB2 connector on the back of your computer). The USB2 connector only has the four pins, not all nine pins. The OS says "This device could go faster" if and only if at least one USB3 connector is available on the back of the computer, and the speed mismatch has been noted. If the computer had only USB2 ports, and you plug in a USB3 device, there is no complaint there, because there is no potential for improvement (by warning the user to move the device to another port). 2) Plug a USB3 device into a USB3 plug. But, don't push it all the way in. The USB2 pins touch. The USB3 do not touch. We get the same result as (1), namely a claim that the device could go faster. But the problem in this case, is the electrical contacts. If this happens to you, don't over-react. Jamming the thing in hard (as I did) is a mistake. There's a reason this is happening... 3) Plug a USB3 device into a USB3 plug and seat it fully. Now everything works, USB3 rate is negotiated which matches the USB3 config space info. Everyone is happy, no dialog appears. I know all about this contact problem on USB3. 1) Paul stupidly buys a USB3 key with a *plastic* barrel on it. The USB3 port on the computer is *metal*. Paul should have known better. 2) The engineering of the plastic was not done right. There is improper connector capture during insertion, leading to one of the USB3 key pins snapping off! Now instead of 9 pins, my poor USB3 key has only 8 pins. 3) Now the device can never again run at USB3 speed. I am doomed to always see that dialog with that USB3 key. Moral of the story, is *buy only USB3 keys with metal barrels*. Do not buy the plastic ones. I have opened the device in question, and I can't even replace the connector with a proper metal one. Because the contact pattern used in the design, is so **** poor. I can't even remove the assembly, because it's SMT with totally shrouded solderable mechanical support points. Miserable *******s! I would need to grind the ******* off. And finding a replacement miniature contact assembly isn't going to happen - it's custom. I had to use my magnifying glass just to see this stuff. The operating system, by giving you that dialog, is giving you all the hints you need. UVCView would just confirm a few things. But if the pins aren't touching, the utility doesn't say anything specific about that. The low level driver does the negotiating, and I don't think there is any log of what happened there. The dialog box is all the proof you need that something isn't right. HTH, Paul Thanks for the great breakdown Paul. I don't have any keys. I only use drives but just now I noticed I get the warning when I plug in my Transcend USB3 hub even with no drives attached. Also I get faster file transfers when I move files from one internal HDD to another. Speeds of around 130KM/sec. but I guess that is to be expected. When I transfer files from one external Seagate to another I get speeds of one third that. Cables supplied with drives must be making connection as I don't get a warning, just very slow transfer. I'm still not sure what you mean by plastic connector. Are there any pictures online of these? I found this page with info on USB3 detection. This is for Windows 8, so isn't likely to be exactly the same on Windows 7. http://blogs.msdn.com/b/usbcoreblog/...uperspeed.aspx The interesting part is, there is a claim of an updated USBView application in the WDK (Windows Driver Kit). But it requires registration and downloading Visual Studio 2013 or something (which would also require registration). So it's some kind of strip tease for sure. I've had cases in the past, where a certain 25KB utility was promised in some 1GB ot 2GB DVD download, only to find in the release notes of the completely downloaded DVD, that the tool is not included. And the web page announcing it was full of ****. The developers at Microsoft, just *love* this game. Why can't the latest USBView or UVCView just be put on its own web page ? Linux did a pretty good job of displaying three test cases I set up for USB3, but I still don't believe the results. It seems to be telling me, the USB3 stick I believe is functioning properly, lacks proper USB3 identifiers inside. Like the config information isn't the right type for USB3. Linux has tools such as "hwinfo", as in "hwinfo --disk" as well as "lsusb -v" for verbose USB output. That's where I could see that my one good USB3 stick is missing a BOS structure, and I don't know why that is. Paul I think first I need to find a hub that delivers that it's supposed to. Maybe I'll even try another PCIe card as well. OK, found a software gem for you. From our good friend Uwe, the "USB guy". I was looking for a compiled version of the Windows 8 USBView, and I had the source (it's a demo app from Microsoft, with no readily available compiled download). I happened to run into a page from Uwe's site, and he took that source code, fixed it up a bit (like all developers do), and this is the result. http://www.uwe-sieber.de/files/usbtreeview.zip Now I can run my three test cases, and show the results. This is USB3 on USB3 with all pins intact. The stick benchmarks poorly, because it's just got a lousy flash chip in it. bsdusb reports 3.00 and speed reports "SuperSpeed". http://i61.tinypic.com/i26qf6.gif This is USB3 on USB3 with a broken USB3 pin. Instead of nine pins, only eight pins are working, and only the USB2 section is fully intact. Notice that the bcdusb field reports 2.10, even though if the pin was intact the device would be reporting 3.00. I have no idea why they did this, except to take into account, which of the two interfaces were intact. If the USB2 section was broke (and the USB3 section was intact), I think detection would fail entirely. http://i58.tinypic.com/25psuq0.gif And this one is USB3 on a USB2 port. Which reports like the previous (broken pin) case. The bcdusb capability field reports 2.10. And the port runs at 480Mbit/sec. http://i59.tinypic.com/t0giu9.gif Isn't it lucky now, that I have a $60 USB key with a broken pin on it ? :-( I could do this demo. HTH, Paul Nice find Paul. Now I can see that my Seagate +++++++++++++++++ Device Information ++++++++++++++++++ Device Description : USB Mass Storage Device Device ID : USB\VID_0BC2&PID_3312\NA4KB7D1 Driver KeyName : {36fc9e60-c465-11cf-8056-444553540000}\0111 (GUID_DEVCLASS_USB) Driver : C:\Windows\system32\DRIVERS\USBSTOR.SYS (Version: 6.1.7601.17577 Date: 2006-06-21) Driver Inf : C:\Windows\INF\usbstor.inf Legacy BusType : PNPBus Class : USB Service : USBSTOR Enumerator : USB Location Info : Port_#0005.Hub_#0008 Container ID : {c5d05e46-5542-58be-a22e-1961f1936ef8} Manufacturer Info : Compatible USB storage device Capabilities : Removable, UniqueID, RawDeviceOK, SurpriseRemovalOK Address : 0 (*!*ERROR Should be equal to the port number) Problem Code : 0 Power State : D0 (supported: D0, D1, D2, D3, wake from D0, wake from D2) Child Device 1 : Disk drive Device ID : USBSTOR\DISK&VEN_SEAGATE&PROD_EXPANSION_DESK&REV_0 740\NA4KB7D1&0 Class : DiskDrive Volume : \\?\Volume{541d74f2-db97-11e3-b411-000a3a7c7854}\ Kernel Name : \Device\HarddiskVolume5 Mountpoint : F:\ Is showing this: ---------------- Connection Information --------------- Connection Index : 0x01 Connection Status : 0x01 (DeviceConnected) Current Config Value : 0x01 Device Address : 0x02 Is Hub : 0x00 (no) Number Of Open Pipes : 0x02 (2) Device Bus Speed : 0x02 (High-Speed) Pipe0ScheduleOffset : 0x00 (0) Pipe1ScheduleOffset : 0x00 (0) For some reason..............??? Your Device Bus Speed is High Speed or USB2 480mbit/sec rate. Limited to 35MB/sec or so on a hard drive. But your info lacks a bcdusb field. A value of 2.10 says you have a USB3 device where the USB3 pins don't touch or the USB3 driver is missing or something. A value of 3.00 says your peripheral is USB3 and all the pins are touching and the port is USB3 as well. Have a look at your bcdusb. If it is 2.10, start looking at the port description in the TreeView (left hand column), that the device is actually on a USB3 port. In my example photos, you can see my add-in Renesas chip hosts two of the three USB keys. Check to see what is hosting your disk drive at the moment, as it may explain only getting bcdusb of 2.10. Paul I think I have to back up and start over with installing the PCIe card and the hub again. There are errors showing. I may even look for a different hub and card. My newer system shows lightning speed so maybe it's just time to put this older one on the shelf and make room for a new build. I've been looking for an excuse to do that for some time now. Pentium Dual-Core E6800 @ 3.33Ghz 8Gigs DDR2 Gigabyte P35-S3G 266MHz clock Win7 Ultimate 64bit GeForce GTX 260 My AMD Phenom II X6 1055T 2,8 GHz 3300 MHz ASUS M4a87TD/USB3 16Gig DDR3 GeForce GTXX 550 Ti Isn't even all that new but it does a lot better and it shows 7.3 WEI I might look for a USB3 card with a different chip on it. (If you buy a second card, and it has the same Renesas chip on it or whatever, it might behave the same. We don't know what's "broken" in your setup...) At this point, I don't know if what you've seen so far, would have me throwing away a computer. I'm having some problems with my system here, but I'm at the point now in the process, of gathering additional information. I had an IDE drive "disappear" in mid session. The drive itself has no apparent problems and passes test. A couple days ago, "Sleep" and "Hibernate" disappeared. And last night, the system froze (after I noted that something funny was happening to the GUI in Windows. Some windows disappeared off screen (with the programs still running). And when I went to open the NVidia control panel, the system locked. When the computer rebooted, the BIOS setting (NVRAM) were corrupted and I had to reproduce (from memory) the settings. Which made for a little fun. I'm hoping the root cause is a bad CMOS battery (as my RAM is only stable with custom settings, and the Northbridge Vnb needs to be bumped a couple hundred millivolts to be rock-solid). My theories as to what is broken, keep changing with each "event". I left Prime95 Torture Test running over night, with the corrected BIOS settings in place, and it was clean this morning. Now I wait for the next crash or fumble. Paul |
#22
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USB3 indicator
On 6/1/2014 3:10 PM, Paul wrote:
AlDrake wrote: On 5/30/2014 8:32 PM, Paul wrote: AlDrake wrote: On 5/30/2014 6:47 AM, Paul wrote: AlDrake wrote: On 5/30/2014 3:07 AM, Paul wrote: AlDrake wrote: On 5/29/2014 8:10 PM, Paul wrote: AlDrake wrote: Can anyone shed some light on windows 7 tool that alerts connecting to a USB3 can achieve faster access. I get this sometimes even when I am connecting a USB3 device but win7 doesn't agree. Can this utility be accessed to check connections? So far the only way I can tell is viewing the speed of files being transferred. Al. A tool for displaying that info would be UVCView from Microsoft. The older version used to be relatively easy to get. The newer version required downloading some SDK DVD and picking it out of there. I doubt you would enjoy that utility, because the "output isn't in English". It's a developer tool. The scheme works something like this. 1) USB devices have a configuration space. Early in PNP, the config space is fetched. In the space is a field that says "my max speed is USB3" or "my max speed is USB2". 2) At the same time, the low level stuff starts negotiation. On the USB3 connector on the back of your computer, there are two sets of pins. If both sets of pins "touch", the negotiation procedure notes that the USB3 set are the fastest one. And the hardware plumbing uses those pins. So let's review how it can fail. 1) Plug a USB3 into a USB2 plug. Config says "I'm USB3". Negotiation leads to a USB2 connection (as only those pins are touching on a USB2 connector on the back of your computer). The USB2 connector only has the four pins, not all nine pins. The OS says "This device could go faster" if and only if at least one USB3 connector is available on the back of the computer, and the speed mismatch has been noted. If the computer had only USB2 ports, and you plug in a USB3 device, there is no complaint there, because there is no potential for improvement (by warning the user to move the device to another port). 2) Plug a USB3 device into a USB3 plug. But, don't push it all the way in. The USB2 pins touch. The USB3 do not touch. We get the same result as (1), namely a claim that the device could go faster. But the problem in this case, is the electrical contacts. If this happens to you, don't over-react. Jamming the thing in hard (as I did) is a mistake. There's a reason this is happening... 3) Plug a USB3 device into a USB3 plug and seat it fully. Now everything works, USB3 rate is negotiated which matches the USB3 config space info. Everyone is happy, no dialog appears. I know all about this contact problem on USB3. 1) Paul stupidly buys a USB3 key with a *plastic* barrel on it. The USB3 port on the computer is *metal*. Paul should have known better. 2) The engineering of the plastic was not done right. There is improper connector capture during insertion, leading to one of the USB3 key pins snapping off! Now instead of 9 pins, my poor USB3 key has only 8 pins. 3) Now the device can never again run at USB3 speed. I am doomed to always see that dialog with that USB3 key. Moral of the story, is *buy only USB3 keys with metal barrels*. Do not buy the plastic ones. I have opened the device in question, and I can't even replace the connector with a proper metal one. Because the contact pattern used in the design, is so **** poor. I can't even remove the assembly, because it's SMT with totally shrouded solderable mechanical support points. Miserable *******s! I would need to grind the ******* off. And finding a replacement miniature contact assembly isn't going to happen - it's custom. I had to use my magnifying glass just to see this stuff. The operating system, by giving you that dialog, is giving you all the hints you need. UVCView would just confirm a few things. But if the pins aren't touching, the utility doesn't say anything specific about that. The low level driver does the negotiating, and I don't think there is any log of what happened there. The dialog box is all the proof you need that something isn't right. HTH, Paul Thanks for the great breakdown Paul. I don't have any keys. I only use drives but just now I noticed I get the warning when I plug in my Transcend USB3 hub even with no drives attached. Also I get faster file transfers when I move files from one internal HDD to another. Speeds of around 130KM/sec. but I guess that is to be expected. When I transfer files from one external Seagate to another I get speeds of one third that. Cables supplied with drives must be making connection as I don't get a warning, just very slow transfer. I'm still not sure what you mean by plastic connector. Are there any pictures online of these? I found this page with info on USB3 detection. This is for Windows 8, so isn't likely to be exactly the same on Windows 7. http://blogs.msdn.com/b/usbcoreblog/...uperspeed.aspx The interesting part is, there is a claim of an updated USBView application in the WDK (Windows Driver Kit). But it requires registration and downloading Visual Studio 2013 or something (which would also require registration). So it's some kind of strip tease for sure. I've had cases in the past, where a certain 25KB utility was promised in some 1GB ot 2GB DVD download, only to find in the release notes of the completely downloaded DVD, that the tool is not included. And the web page announcing it was full of ****. The developers at Microsoft, just *love* this game. Why can't the latest USBView or UVCView just be put on its own web page ? Linux did a pretty good job of displaying three test cases I set up for USB3, but I still don't believe the results. It seems to be telling me, the USB3 stick I believe is functioning properly, lacks proper USB3 identifiers inside. Like the config information isn't the right type for USB3. Linux has tools such as "hwinfo", as in "hwinfo --disk" as well as "lsusb -v" for verbose USB output. That's where I could see that my one good USB3 stick is missing a BOS structure, and I don't know why that is. Paul I think first I need to find a hub that delivers that it's supposed to. Maybe I'll even try another PCIe card as well. OK, found a software gem for you. From our good friend Uwe, the "USB guy". I was looking for a compiled version of the Windows 8 USBView, and I had the source (it's a demo app from Microsoft, with no readily available compiled download). I happened to run into a page from Uwe's site, and he took that source code, fixed it up a bit (like all developers do), and this is the result. http://www.uwe-sieber.de/files/usbtreeview.zip Now I can run my three test cases, and show the results. This is USB3 on USB3 with all pins intact. The stick benchmarks poorly, because it's just got a lousy flash chip in it. bsdusb reports 3.00 and speed reports "SuperSpeed". http://i61.tinypic.com/i26qf6.gif This is USB3 on USB3 with a broken USB3 pin. Instead of nine pins, only eight pins are working, and only the USB2 section is fully intact. Notice that the bcdusb field reports 2.10, even though if the pin was intact the device would be reporting 3.00. I have no idea why they did this, except to take into account, which of the two interfaces were intact. If the USB2 section was broke (and the USB3 section was intact), I think detection would fail entirely. http://i58.tinypic.com/25psuq0.gif And this one is USB3 on a USB2 port. Which reports like the previous (broken pin) case. The bcdusb capability field reports 2.10. And the port runs at 480Mbit/sec. http://i59.tinypic.com/t0giu9.gif Isn't it lucky now, that I have a $60 USB key with a broken pin on it ? :-( I could do this demo. HTH, Paul Nice find Paul. Now I can see that my Seagate +++++++++++++++++ Device Information ++++++++++++++++++ Device Description : USB Mass Storage Device Device ID : USB\VID_0BC2&PID_3312\NA4KB7D1 Driver KeyName : {36fc9e60-c465-11cf-8056-444553540000}\0111 (GUID_DEVCLASS_USB) Driver : C:\Windows\system32\DRIVERS\USBSTOR.SYS (Version: 6.1.7601.17577 Date: 2006-06-21) Driver Inf : C:\Windows\INF\usbstor.inf Legacy BusType : PNPBus Class : USB Service : USBSTOR Enumerator : USB Location Info : Port_#0005.Hub_#0008 Container ID : {c5d05e46-5542-58be-a22e-1961f1936ef8} Manufacturer Info : Compatible USB storage device Capabilities : Removable, UniqueID, RawDeviceOK, SurpriseRemovalOK Address : 0 (*!*ERROR Should be equal to the port number) Problem Code : 0 Power State : D0 (supported: D0, D1, D2, D3, wake from D0, wake from D2) Child Device 1 : Disk drive Device ID : USBSTOR\DISK&VEN_SEAGATE&PROD_EXPANSION_DESK&REV_0 740\NA4KB7D1&0 Class : DiskDrive Volume : \\?\Volume{541d74f2-db97-11e3-b411-000a3a7c7854}\ Kernel Name : \Device\HarddiskVolume5 Mountpoint : F:\ Is showing this: ---------------- Connection Information --------------- Connection Index : 0x01 Connection Status : 0x01 (DeviceConnected) Current Config Value : 0x01 Device Address : 0x02 Is Hub : 0x00 (no) Number Of Open Pipes : 0x02 (2) Device Bus Speed : 0x02 (High-Speed) Pipe0ScheduleOffset : 0x00 (0) Pipe1ScheduleOffset : 0x00 (0) For some reason..............??? Your Device Bus Speed is High Speed or USB2 480mbit/sec rate. Limited to 35MB/sec or so on a hard drive. But your info lacks a bcdusb field. A value of 2.10 says you have a USB3 device where the USB3 pins don't touch or the USB3 driver is missing or something. A value of 3.00 says your peripheral is USB3 and all the pins are touching and the port is USB3 as well. Have a look at your bcdusb. If it is 2.10, start looking at the port description in the TreeView (left hand column), that the device is actually on a USB3 port. In my example photos, you can see my add-in Renesas chip hosts two of the three USB keys. Check to see what is hosting your disk drive at the moment, as it may explain only getting bcdusb of 2.10. Paul I think I have to back up and start over with installing the PCIe card and the hub again. There are errors showing. I may even look for a different hub and card. My newer system shows lightning speed so maybe it's just time to put this older one on the shelf and make room for a new build. I've been looking for an excuse to do that for some time now. Pentium Dual-Core E6800 @ 3.33Ghz 8Gigs DDR2 Gigabyte P35-S3G 266MHz clock Win7 Ultimate 64bit GeForce GTX 260 My AMD Phenom II X6 1055T 2,8 GHz 3300 MHz ASUS M4a87TD/USB3 16Gig DDR3 GeForce GTXX 550 Ti Isn't even all that new but it does a lot better and it shows 7.3 WEI I might look for a USB3 card with a different chip on it. (If you buy a second card, and it has the same Renesas chip on it or whatever, it might behave the same. We don't know what's "broken" in your setup...) At this point, I don't know if what you've seen so far, would have me throwing away a computer. I'm having some problems with my system here, but I'm at the point now in the process, of gathering additional information. I had an IDE drive "disappear" in mid session. The drive itself has no apparent problems and passes test. A couple days ago, "Sleep" and "Hibernate" disappeared. And last night, the system froze (after I noted that something funny was happening to the GUI in Windows. Some windows disappeared off screen (with the programs still running). And when I went to open the NVidia control panel, the system locked. When the computer rebooted, the BIOS setting (NVRAM) were corrupted and I had to reproduce (from memory) the settings. Which made for a little fun. I'm hoping the root cause is a bad CMOS battery (as my RAM is only stable with custom settings, and the Northbridge Vnb needs to be bumped a couple hundred millivolts to be rock-solid). My theories as to what is broken, keep changing with each "event". I left Prime95 Torture Test running over night, with the corrected BIOS settings in place, and it was clean this morning. Now I wait for the next crash or fumble. Paul Well I'm glad to learn I'm not the only one that's having fun. If anyone can fix it that would be you in my opinion. You've got the right man working on it. On second thought I might just shelf this old beast and stick with the AMD. It's just been sitting there doing nothing for some time. I'm running a homeless computer shelter here anyway. One more on the shelf isn't going to make much of a difference. I'll just order some parts one by one and start the incubation process all over again and see what it grows up to be. Most likely a strong healthy Intel Core i7 of some flavor to my liking. I think I'll dissect something and implant the Puter Fetus instead of stating out with a scrambled Newegg. That should work. |
#23
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USB3 indicator
Al Drake wrote:
On 6/1/2014 3:10 PM, Paul wrote: AlDrake wrote: On 5/30/2014 8:32 PM, Paul wrote: AlDrake wrote: On 5/30/2014 6:47 AM, Paul wrote: AlDrake wrote: On 5/30/2014 3:07 AM, Paul wrote: AlDrake wrote: On 5/29/2014 8:10 PM, Paul wrote: AlDrake wrote: Can anyone shed some light on windows 7 tool that alerts connecting to a USB3 can achieve faster access. I get this sometimes even when I am connecting a USB3 device but win7 doesn't agree. Can this utility be accessed to check connections? So far the only way I can tell is viewing the speed of files being transferred. Al. A tool for displaying that info would be UVCView from Microsoft. The older version used to be relatively easy to get. The newer version required downloading some SDK DVD and picking it out of there. I doubt you would enjoy that utility, because the "output isn't in English". It's a developer tool. The scheme works something like this. 1) USB devices have a configuration space. Early in PNP, the config space is fetched. In the space is a field that says "my max speed is USB3" or "my max speed is USB2". 2) At the same time, the low level stuff starts negotiation. On the USB3 connector on the back of your computer, there are two sets of pins. If both sets of pins "touch", the negotiation procedure notes that the USB3 set are the fastest one. And the hardware plumbing uses those pins. So let's review how it can fail. 1) Plug a USB3 into a USB2 plug. Config says "I'm USB3". Negotiation leads to a USB2 connection (as only those pins are touching on a USB2 connector on the back of your computer). The USB2 connector only has the four pins, not all nine pins. The OS says "This device could go faster" if and only if at least one USB3 connector is available on the back of the computer, and the speed mismatch has been noted. If the computer had only USB2 ports, and you plug in a USB3 device, there is no complaint there, because there is no potential for improvement (by warning the user to move the device to another port). 2) Plug a USB3 device into a USB3 plug. But, don't push it all the way in. The USB2 pins touch. The USB3 do not touch. We get the same result as (1), namely a claim that the device could go faster. But the problem in this case, is the electrical contacts. If this happens to you, don't over-react. Jamming the thing in hard (as I did) is a mistake. There's a reason this is happening... 3) Plug a USB3 device into a USB3 plug and seat it fully. Now everything works, USB3 rate is negotiated which matches the USB3 config space info. Everyone is happy, no dialog appears. I know all about this contact problem on USB3. 1) Paul stupidly buys a USB3 key with a *plastic* barrel on it. The USB3 port on the computer is *metal*. Paul should have known better. 2) The engineering of the plastic was not done right. There is improper connector capture during insertion, leading to one of the USB3 key pins snapping off! Now instead of 9 pins, my poor USB3 key has only 8 pins. 3) Now the device can never again run at USB3 speed. I am doomed to always see that dialog with that USB3 key. Moral of the story, is *buy only USB3 keys with metal barrels*. Do not buy the plastic ones. I have opened the device in question, and I can't even replace the connector with a proper metal one. Because the contact pattern used in the design, is so **** poor. I can't even remove the assembly, because it's SMT with totally shrouded solderable mechanical support points. Miserable *******s! I would need to grind the ******* off. And finding a replacement miniature contact assembly isn't going to happen - it's custom. I had to use my magnifying glass just to see this stuff. The operating system, by giving you that dialog, is giving you all the hints you need. UVCView would just confirm a few things. But if the pins aren't touching, the utility doesn't say anything specific about that. The low level driver does the negotiating, and I don't think there is any log of what happened there. The dialog box is all the proof you need that something isn't right. HTH, Paul Thanks for the great breakdown Paul. I don't have any keys. I only use drives but just now I noticed I get the warning when I plug in my Transcend USB3 hub even with no drives attached. Also I get faster file transfers when I move files from one internal HDD to another. Speeds of around 130KM/sec. but I guess that is to be expected. When I transfer files from one external Seagate to another I get speeds of one third that. Cables supplied with drives must be making connection as I don't get a warning, just very slow transfer. I'm still not sure what you mean by plastic connector. Are there any pictures online of these? I found this page with info on USB3 detection. This is for Windows 8, so isn't likely to be exactly the same on Windows 7. http://blogs.msdn.com/b/usbcoreblog/...uperspeed.aspx The interesting part is, there is a claim of an updated USBView application in the WDK (Windows Driver Kit). But it requires registration and downloading Visual Studio 2013 or something (which would also require registration). So it's some kind of strip tease for sure. I've had cases in the past, where a certain 25KB utility was promised in some 1GB ot 2GB DVD download, only to find in the release notes of the completely downloaded DVD, that the tool is not included. And the web page announcing it was full of ****. The developers at Microsoft, just *love* this game. Why can't the latest USBView or UVCView just be put on its own web page ? Linux did a pretty good job of displaying three test cases I set up for USB3, but I still don't believe the results. It seems to be telling me, the USB3 stick I believe is functioning properly, lacks proper USB3 identifiers inside. Like the config information isn't the right type for USB3. Linux has tools such as "hwinfo", as in "hwinfo --disk" as well as "lsusb -v" for verbose USB output. That's where I could see that my one good USB3 stick is missing a BOS structure, and I don't know why that is. Paul I think first I need to find a hub that delivers that it's supposed to. Maybe I'll even try another PCIe card as well. OK, found a software gem for you. From our good friend Uwe, the "USB guy". I was looking for a compiled version of the Windows 8 USBView, and I had the source (it's a demo app from Microsoft, with no readily available compiled download). I happened to run into a page from Uwe's site, and he took that source code, fixed it up a bit (like all developers do), and this is the result. http://www.uwe-sieber.de/files/usbtreeview.zip Now I can run my three test cases, and show the results. This is USB3 on USB3 with all pins intact. The stick benchmarks poorly, because it's just got a lousy flash chip in it. bsdusb reports 3.00 and speed reports "SuperSpeed". http://i61.tinypic.com/i26qf6.gif This is USB3 on USB3 with a broken USB3 pin. Instead of nine pins, only eight pins are working, and only the USB2 section is fully intact. Notice that the bcdusb field reports 2.10, even though if the pin was intact the device would be reporting 3.00. I have no idea why they did this, except to take into account, which of the two interfaces were intact. If the USB2 section was broke (and the USB3 section was intact), I think detection would fail entirely. http://i58.tinypic.com/25psuq0.gif And this one is USB3 on a USB2 port. Which reports like the previous (broken pin) case. The bcdusb capability field reports 2.10. And the port runs at 480Mbit/sec. http://i59.tinypic.com/t0giu9.gif Isn't it lucky now, that I have a $60 USB key with a broken pin on it ? :-( I could do this demo. HTH, Paul Nice find Paul. Now I can see that my Seagate +++++++++++++++++ Device Information ++++++++++++++++++ Device Description : USB Mass Storage Device Device ID : USB\VID_0BC2&PID_3312\NA4KB7D1 Driver KeyName : {36fc9e60-c465-11cf-8056-444553540000}\0111 (GUID_DEVCLASS_USB) Driver : C:\Windows\system32\DRIVERS\USBSTOR.SYS (Version: 6.1.7601.17577 Date: 2006-06-21) Driver Inf : C:\Windows\INF\usbstor.inf Legacy BusType : PNPBus Class : USB Service : USBSTOR Enumerator : USB Location Info : Port_#0005.Hub_#0008 Container ID : {c5d05e46-5542-58be-a22e-1961f1936ef8} Manufacturer Info : Compatible USB storage device Capabilities : Removable, UniqueID, RawDeviceOK, SurpriseRemovalOK Address : 0 (*!*ERROR Should be equal to the port number) Problem Code : 0 Power State : D0 (supported: D0, D1, D2, D3, wake from D0, wake from D2) Child Device 1 : Disk drive Device ID : USBSTOR\DISK&VEN_SEAGATE&PROD_EXPANSION_DESK&REV_0 740\NA4KB7D1&0 Class : DiskDrive Volume : \\?\Volume{541d74f2-db97-11e3-b411-000a3a7c7854}\ Kernel Name : \Device\HarddiskVolume5 Mountpoint : F:\ Is showing this: ---------------- Connection Information --------------- Connection Index : 0x01 Connection Status : 0x01 (DeviceConnected) Current Config Value : 0x01 Device Address : 0x02 Is Hub : 0x00 (no) Number Of Open Pipes : 0x02 (2) Device Bus Speed : 0x02 (High-Speed) Pipe0ScheduleOffset : 0x00 (0) Pipe1ScheduleOffset : 0x00 (0) For some reason..............??? Your Device Bus Speed is High Speed or USB2 480mbit/sec rate. Limited to 35MB/sec or so on a hard drive. But your info lacks a bcdusb field. A value of 2.10 says you have a USB3 device where the USB3 pins don't touch or the USB3 driver is missing or something. A value of 3.00 says your peripheral is USB3 and all the pins are touching and the port is USB3 as well. Have a look at your bcdusb. If it is 2.10, start looking at the port description in the TreeView (left hand column), that the device is actually on a USB3 port. In my example photos, you can see my add-in Renesas chip hosts two of the three USB keys. Check to see what is hosting your disk drive at the moment, as it may explain only getting bcdusb of 2.10. Paul I think I have to back up and start over with installing the PCIe card and the hub again. There are errors showing. I may even look for a different hub and card. My newer system shows lightning speed so maybe it's just time to put this older one on the shelf and make room for a new build. I've been looking for an excuse to do that for some time now. Pentium Dual-Core E6800 @ 3.33Ghz 8Gigs DDR2 Gigabyte P35-S3G 266MHz clock Win7 Ultimate 64bit GeForce GTX 260 My AMD Phenom II X6 1055T 2,8 GHz 3300 MHz ASUS M4a87TD/USB3 16Gig DDR3 GeForce GTXX 550 Ti Isn't even all that new but it does a lot better and it shows 7.3 WEI I might look for a USB3 card with a different chip on it. (If you buy a second card, and it has the same Renesas chip on it or whatever, it might behave the same. We don't know what's "broken" in your setup...) At this point, I don't know if what you've seen so far, would have me throwing away a computer. I'm having some problems with my system here, but I'm at the point now in the process, of gathering additional information. I had an IDE drive "disappear" in mid session. The drive itself has no apparent problems and passes test. A couple days ago, "Sleep" and "Hibernate" disappeared. And last night, the system froze (after I noted that something funny was happening to the GUI in Windows. Some windows disappeared off screen (with the programs still running). And when I went to open the NVidia control panel, the system locked. When the computer rebooted, the BIOS setting (NVRAM) were corrupted and I had to reproduce (from memory) the settings. Which made for a little fun. I'm hoping the root cause is a bad CMOS battery (as my RAM is only stable with custom settings, and the Northbridge Vnb needs to be bumped a couple hundred millivolts to be rock-solid). My theories as to what is broken, keep changing with each "event". I left Prime95 Torture Test running over night, with the corrected BIOS settings in place, and it was clean this morning. Now I wait for the next crash or fumble. Paul Well I'm glad to learn I'm not the only one that's having fun. If anyone can fix it that would be you in my opinion. You've got the right man working on it. On second thought I might just shelf this old beast and stick with the AMD. It's just been sitting there doing nothing for some time. I'm running a homeless computer shelter here anyway. One more on the shelf isn't going to make much of a difference. I'll just order some parts one by one and start the incubation process all over again and see what it grows up to be. Most likely a strong healthy Intel Core i7 of some flavor to my liking. I think I'll dissect something and implant the Puter Fetus instead of stating out with a scrambled Newegg. That should work. The policy I use, to "stop" the acquisition of computers is the rule "no new computer cases". I'm only allowed as many computers as I have cases for them. If I want a new motherboard, it means cleaning out the case of an old computer, and sticking it in there. At least that way, they're taking up a relatively fixed amount of room :-) Paul |
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USB3 indicator
On 6/1/2014 4:51 PM, Paul wrote:
Al Drake wrote: On 6/1/2014 3:10 PM, Paul wrote: AlDrake wrote: On 5/30/2014 8:32 PM, Paul wrote: AlDrake wrote: On 5/30/2014 6:47 AM, Paul wrote: AlDrake wrote: On 5/30/2014 3:07 AM, Paul wrote: AlDrake wrote: On 5/29/2014 8:10 PM, Paul wrote: AlDrake wrote: Can anyone shed some light on windows 7 tool that alerts connecting to a USB3 can achieve faster access. I get this sometimes even when I am connecting a USB3 device but win7 doesn't agree. Can this utility be accessed to check connections? So far the only way I can tell is viewing the speed of files being transferred. Al. A tool for displaying that info would be UVCView from Microsoft. The older version used to be relatively easy to get. The newer version required downloading some SDK DVD and picking it out of there. I doubt you would enjoy that utility, because the "output isn't in English". It's a developer tool. The scheme works something like this. 1) USB devices have a configuration space. Early in PNP, the config space is fetched. In the space is a field that says "my max speed is USB3" or "my max speed is USB2". 2) At the same time, the low level stuff starts negotiation. On the USB3 connector on the back of your computer, there are two sets of pins. If both sets of pins "touch", the negotiation procedure notes that the USB3 set are the fastest one. And the hardware plumbing uses those pins. So let's review how it can fail. 1) Plug a USB3 into a USB2 plug. Config says "I'm USB3". Negotiation leads to a USB2 connection (as only those pins are touching on a USB2 connector on the back of your computer). The USB2 connector only has the four pins, not all nine pins. The OS says "This device could go faster" if and only if at least one USB3 connector is available on the back of the computer, and the speed mismatch has been noted. If the computer had only USB2 ports, and you plug in a USB3 device, there is no complaint there, because there is no potential for improvement (by warning the user to move the device to another port). 2) Plug a USB3 device into a USB3 plug. But, don't push it all the way in. The USB2 pins touch. The USB3 do not touch. We get the same result as (1), namely a claim that the device could go faster. But the problem in this case, is the electrical contacts. If this happens to you, don't over-react. Jamming the thing in hard (as I did) is a mistake. There's a reason this is happening... 3) Plug a USB3 device into a USB3 plug and seat it fully. Now everything works, USB3 rate is negotiated which matches the USB3 config space info. Everyone is happy, no dialog appears. I know all about this contact problem on USB3. 1) Paul stupidly buys a USB3 key with a *plastic* barrel on it. The USB3 port on the computer is *metal*. Paul should have known better. 2) The engineering of the plastic was not done right. There is improper connector capture during insertion, leading to one of the USB3 key pins snapping off! Now instead of 9 pins, my poor USB3 key has only 8 pins. 3) Now the device can never again run at USB3 speed. I am doomed to always see that dialog with that USB3 key. Moral of the story, is *buy only USB3 keys with metal barrels*. Do not buy the plastic ones. I have opened the device in question, and I can't even replace the connector with a proper metal one. Because the contact pattern used in the design, is so **** poor. I can't even remove the assembly, because it's SMT with totally shrouded solderable mechanical support points. Miserable *******s! I would need to grind the ******* off. And finding a replacement miniature contact assembly isn't going to happen - it's custom. I had to use my magnifying glass just to see this stuff. The operating system, by giving you that dialog, is giving you all the hints you need. UVCView would just confirm a few things. But if the pins aren't touching, the utility doesn't say anything specific about that. The low level driver does the negotiating, and I don't think there is any log of what happened there. The dialog box is all the proof you need that something isn't right. HTH, Paul Thanks for the great breakdown Paul. I don't have any keys. I only use drives but just now I noticed I get the warning when I plug in my Transcend USB3 hub even with no drives attached. Also I get faster file transfers when I move files from one internal HDD to another. Speeds of around 130KM/sec. but I guess that is to be expected. When I transfer files from one external Seagate to another I get speeds of one third that. Cables supplied with drives must be making connection as I don't get a warning, just very slow transfer. I'm still not sure what you mean by plastic connector. Are there any pictures online of these? I found this page with info on USB3 detection. This is for Windows 8, so isn't likely to be exactly the same on Windows 7. http://blogs.msdn.com/b/usbcoreblog/...uperspeed.aspx The interesting part is, there is a claim of an updated USBView application in the WDK (Windows Driver Kit). But it requires registration and downloading Visual Studio 2013 or something (which would also require registration). So it's some kind of strip tease for sure. I've had cases in the past, where a certain 25KB utility was promised in some 1GB ot 2GB DVD download, only to find in the release notes of the completely downloaded DVD, that the tool is not included. And the web page announcing it was full of ****. The developers at Microsoft, just *love* this game. Why can't the latest USBView or UVCView just be put on its own web page ? Linux did a pretty good job of displaying three test cases I set up for USB3, but I still don't believe the results. It seems to be telling me, the USB3 stick I believe is functioning properly, lacks proper USB3 identifiers inside. Like the config information isn't the right type for USB3. Linux has tools such as "hwinfo", as in "hwinfo --disk" as well as "lsusb -v" for verbose USB output. That's where I could see that my one good USB3 stick is missing a BOS structure, and I don't know why that is. Paul I think first I need to find a hub that delivers that it's supposed to. Maybe I'll even try another PCIe card as well. OK, found a software gem for you. From our good friend Uwe, the "USB guy". I was looking for a compiled version of the Windows 8 USBView, and I had the source (it's a demo app from Microsoft, with no readily available compiled download). I happened to run into a page from Uwe's site, and he took that source code, fixed it up a bit (like all developers do), and this is the result. http://www.uwe-sieber.de/files/usbtreeview.zip Now I can run my three test cases, and show the results. This is USB3 on USB3 with all pins intact. The stick benchmarks poorly, because it's just got a lousy flash chip in it. bsdusb reports 3.00 and speed reports "SuperSpeed". http://i61.tinypic.com/i26qf6.gif This is USB3 on USB3 with a broken USB3 pin. Instead of nine pins, only eight pins are working, and only the USB2 section is fully intact. Notice that the bcdusb field reports 2.10, even though if the pin was intact the device would be reporting 3.00. I have no idea why they did this, except to take into account, which of the two interfaces were intact. If the USB2 section was broke (and the USB3 section was intact), I think detection would fail entirely. http://i58.tinypic.com/25psuq0.gif And this one is USB3 on a USB2 port. Which reports like the previous (broken pin) case. The bcdusb capability field reports 2.10. And the port runs at 480Mbit/sec. http://i59.tinypic.com/t0giu9.gif Isn't it lucky now, that I have a $60 USB key with a broken pin on it ? :-( I could do this demo. HTH, Paul Nice find Paul. Now I can see that my Seagate +++++++++++++++++ Device Information ++++++++++++++++++ Device Description : USB Mass Storage Device Device ID : USB\VID_0BC2&PID_3312\NA4KB7D1 Driver KeyName : {36fc9e60-c465-11cf-8056-444553540000}\0111 (GUID_DEVCLASS_USB) Driver : C:\Windows\system32\DRIVERS\USBSTOR.SYS (Version: 6.1.7601.17577 Date: 2006-06-21) Driver Inf : C:\Windows\INF\usbstor.inf Legacy BusType : PNPBus Class : USB Service : USBSTOR Enumerator : USB Location Info : Port_#0005.Hub_#0008 Container ID : {c5d05e46-5542-58be-a22e-1961f1936ef8} Manufacturer Info : Compatible USB storage device Capabilities : Removable, UniqueID, RawDeviceOK, SurpriseRemovalOK Address : 0 (*!*ERROR Should be equal to the port number) Problem Code : 0 Power State : D0 (supported: D0, D1, D2, D3, wake from D0, wake from D2) Child Device 1 : Disk drive Device ID : USBSTOR\DISK&VEN_SEAGATE&PROD_EXPANSION_DESK&REV_0 740\NA4KB7D1&0 Class : DiskDrive Volume : \\?\Volume{541d74f2-db97-11e3-b411-000a3a7c7854}\ Kernel Name : \Device\HarddiskVolume5 Mountpoint : F:\ Is showing this: ---------------- Connection Information --------------- Connection Index : 0x01 Connection Status : 0x01 (DeviceConnected) Current Config Value : 0x01 Device Address : 0x02 Is Hub : 0x00 (no) Number Of Open Pipes : 0x02 (2) Device Bus Speed : 0x02 (High-Speed) Pipe0ScheduleOffset : 0x00 (0) Pipe1ScheduleOffset : 0x00 (0) For some reason..............??? Your Device Bus Speed is High Speed or USB2 480mbit/sec rate. Limited to 35MB/sec or so on a hard drive. But your info lacks a bcdusb field. A value of 2.10 says you have a USB3 device where the USB3 pins don't touch or the USB3 driver is missing or something. A value of 3.00 says your peripheral is USB3 and all the pins are touching and the port is USB3 as well. Have a look at your bcdusb. If it is 2.10, start looking at the port description in the TreeView (left hand column), that the device is actually on a USB3 port. In my example photos, you can see my add-in Renesas chip hosts two of the three USB keys. Check to see what is hosting your disk drive at the moment, as it may explain only getting bcdusb of 2.10. Paul I think I have to back up and start over with installing the PCIe card and the hub again. There are errors showing. I may even look for a different hub and card. My newer system shows lightning speed so maybe it's just time to put this older one on the shelf and make room for a new build. I've been looking for an excuse to do that for some time now. Pentium Dual-Core E6800 @ 3.33Ghz 8Gigs DDR2 Gigabyte P35-S3G 266MHz clock Win7 Ultimate 64bit GeForce GTX 260 My AMD Phenom II X6 1055T 2,8 GHz 3300 MHz ASUS M4a87TD/USB3 16Gig DDR3 GeForce GTXX 550 Ti Isn't even all that new but it does a lot better and it shows 7.3 WEI I might look for a USB3 card with a different chip on it. (If you buy a second card, and it has the same Renesas chip on it or whatever, it might behave the same. We don't know what's "broken" in your setup...) At this point, I don't know if what you've seen so far, would have me throwing away a computer. I'm having some problems with my system here, but I'm at the point now in the process, of gathering additional information. I had an IDE drive "disappear" in mid session. The drive itself has no apparent problems and passes test. A couple days ago, "Sleep" and "Hibernate" disappeared. And last night, the system froze (after I noted that something funny was happening to the GUI in Windows. Some windows disappeared off screen (with the programs still running). And when I went to open the NVidia control panel, the system locked. When the computer rebooted, the BIOS setting (NVRAM) were corrupted and I had to reproduce (from memory) the settings. Which made for a little fun. I'm hoping the root cause is a bad CMOS battery (as my RAM is only stable with custom settings, and the Northbridge Vnb needs to be bumped a couple hundred millivolts to be rock-solid). My theories as to what is broken, keep changing with each "event". I left Prime95 Torture Test running over night, with the corrected BIOS settings in place, and it was clean this morning. Now I wait for the next crash or fumble. Paul Well I'm glad to learn I'm not the only one that's having fun. If anyone can fix it that would be you in my opinion. You've got the right man working on it. On second thought I might just shelf this old beast and stick with the AMD. It's just been sitting there doing nothing for some time. I'm running a homeless computer shelter here anyway. One more on the shelf isn't going to make much of a difference. I'll just order some parts one by one and start the incubation process all over again and see what it grows up to be. Most likely a strong healthy Intel Core i7 of some flavor to my liking. I think I'll dissect something and implant the Puter Fetus instead of stating out with a scrambled Newegg. That should work. The policy I use, to "stop" the acquisition of computers is the rule "no new computer cases". I'm only allowed as many computers as I have cases for them. If I want a new motherboard, it means cleaning out the case of an old computer, and sticking it in there. At least that way, they're taking up a relatively fixed amount of room :-) Paul That's the rule I'll have to learn to stick by. For now I'm inside a case looking out. |
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