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  #61  
Old November 30th 17, 12:19 AM posted to alt.windows7.general
Ken Blake[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,356
Default Dell computer with no input

On Wed, 29 Nov 2017 17:07:17 -0600, Char Jackson
wrote:


On Wed, 29 Nov 2017 15:45:26 -0500, Nil
wrote:


On 29 Nov 2017, Char Jackson wrote in
alt.windows7.general:


I haven't needed an optical drive in at least 4-5 years, whether
it's CD, DVD, or BR.


I use CDs and DVDs every single day.


I'm sure you're not the only one, but I think you're in a declining
category of users.




I don't use them as often as Nil, but as I said, I use them too.
You're right, though; we're in a declining category.
Ads
  #62  
Old November 30th 17, 04:42 AM posted to alt.windows7.general
Paul[_32_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,492
Default Dell computer with no input

Mark Lloyd wrote:


My newest desktop computer has no floppy connector, but it does have
RS232 (serial) and parallel port connectors on the motherboard.


And you realize when they do that, that it's all an
affectation.

The chip that does all the low speed I/O is called the "SuperI/O".
It has serial, parallel, floppy interface, IRDA, PS/2 and so on.

Intel proclaimed "we will do away with that thing". But Intel
isn't the whole story in life. And motherboard makers still
include it, or the various variants of it. It's 128 pins,
and a rectangular chip, if fully fleshed out.

In some cases, the motherboard maker wanted it for the
hardware monitor, which can be read out in Speedfan. But
without too much trouble, they can also leave headers on
the motherboard for the other interfaces.

I didn't think I had RS232 on the new machine, but one day
I was idly looking at USB headers, and spotted a header in
one corner of the board (2x5) with a different "missing pin
pattern". And that turned out to be an RS232 port. Which
I tested, made up an adapter cable, and it all worked.

SuperI/O chips (ones with PS/2 interfaces for that PS/2
connector) plus PCI bridge chips (so you can have a PCI
slot for that old sound card), are still features on
retail motherboards from Asus, Gigabyte, MSI, ECS and so on.

There are just two classes of customers. One set of customers
absolutely hates legacy interfaces, and they won't buy a
legacy motherboard with the interfaces on it. All they
want is PCI Express and USB3. The other set of customers
are quite comfortable having legacy interfaces, just so
they can continue to use junk from their junk room :-)

Paul
  #63  
Old November 30th 17, 08:29 AM posted to alt.windows7.general
mike[_10_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 837
Default Dell computer with no input

On 11/29/2017 7:42 PM, Paul wrote:
Mark Lloyd wrote:


My newest desktop computer has no floppy connector, but it does have
RS232 (serial) and parallel port connectors on the motherboard.


And you realize when they do that, that it's all an
affectation.

The chip that does all the low speed I/O is called the "SuperI/O".
It has serial, parallel, floppy interface, IRDA, PS/2 and so on.

Intel proclaimed "we will do away with that thing". But Intel
isn't the whole story in life. And motherboard makers still
include it, or the various variants of it. It's 128 pins,
and a rectangular chip, if fully fleshed out.

In some cases, the motherboard maker wanted it for the
hardware monitor, which can be read out in Speedfan. But
without too much trouble, they can also leave headers on
the motherboard for the other interfaces.

I didn't think I had RS232 on the new machine, but one day
I was idly looking at USB headers, and spotted a header in
one corner of the board (2x5) with a different "missing pin
pattern". And that turned out to be an RS232 port. Which
I tested, made up an adapter cable, and it all worked.

SuperI/O chips (ones with PS/2 interfaces for that PS/2
connector) plus PCI bridge chips (so you can have a PCI
slot for that old sound card), are still features on
retail motherboards from Asus, Gigabyte, MSI, ECS and so on.

There are just two classes of customers. One set of customers
absolutely hates legacy interfaces, and they won't buy a
legacy motherboard with the interfaces on it. All they
want is PCI Express and USB3. The other set of customers
are quite comfortable having legacy interfaces, just so
they can continue to use junk from their junk room :-)

Paul


I have a few ISA GPIB interface cards.
So, I saved an old computer that had sockets for it.
When I tried to put a modern OS on it, no dice.

Had to build my own RS-232 to GPIB adapter.
Then they quit including RS-232 interfaces.

Still works with USB to RS-232 to GPIB, but I
haven't tried it on win10.

You just can't win.
  #64  
Old November 30th 17, 10:59 AM posted to alt.windows7.general
NY
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 391
Default Dell computer with no input

"Char Jackson" wrote in message
...
I use CDs and DVDs every single day.


I'm sure you're not the only one, but I think you're in a declining
category of users. Very long ago, I switched to other forms of storage
for all of the things that previously called for optical discs.


I used to back up to CD-RW, when all my emails, documents etc would fit onto
one 650 MB disc (those were the days!). But it was painfully slow. Once
portable self-powered hard discs became available, I changed over to backing
up to them.

I still use CD/DVD for:

a) installing software that is supplied on CD rather than online
b) playing video DVDs
c) burning video DVDs of home movies etc for other people

On any new PC I'd still want a CD/DVD reader/writer, but I probably wouldn't
use it anywhere near as often as I used to. An external USB drive might
suffice for those times that I use it.

  #65  
Old November 30th 17, 03:53 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Mayayana
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,787
Default Dell computer with no input

"NY" wrote

| I used to back up to CD-RW, when all my emails, documents etc would fit
onto
| one 650 MB disc (those were the days!). But it was painfully slow. Once
| portable self-powered hard discs became available, I changed over to
backing
| up to them.
|

I use DVDs. It takes maybe 5 minutes, which I
don't need to supervise. I keep everything I need
backed up regularly on a single data partition and
copy that partition to DVD. I don't see why anyone
would need more than 4 GB for *routine* backup.
I do have big stuff backed up to old hard disks and
USB sticks, but for routine it's easier and more stable
to use DVDs.

With an external hard disk you then depend
on a single backup that could fail. A power surge
could kill it while it's connected. A mechanical
failure could happen. An external disk is for expansion
or mobility, not for backup. And it's really not very
good even for expansion. Millions of people have been
suckered into buying overpriced external disks that
they don't need. I have a friend who was talked into
it by his "IT person". He had about 400 GB free on
a 500 GB disk. Now he has 400 GB plus a 1 TB
external disk. A complete waste of money. The disk
is always plugged in. Thus it's just a poorly connected
internal drive in practice.

| I still use CD/DVD for:
|
| a) installing software that is supplied on CD rather than online
| b) playing video DVDs
| c) burning video DVDs of home movies etc for other people
|

I also use them for boot disks, to boot imaging
software, repair disks, memtest, hirens boot CD,
etc. (I still use CDs for most of those.) A USB stick
is not as widely supported and costs $5-20 per boot
stick. DVDs cost about 30 cents. Do you buy a
new USB stick every time you want a boot disk?
Or do you just not use boot disks?


  #66  
Old November 30th 17, 05:37 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Mark Lloyd[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 909
Default Dell computer with no input

On 11/29/2017 05:17 PM, Ken Blake wrote:

[snip]

But I should also confess that since floppy drives are so cheap ($15
or so), I almost got one on my new computer too.


I use floppies very seldom and it's not that hard to plug in the USB
3.5" drive. As to 5.25", one computer is enough for that.

--
25 days until the winter celebration (Monday December 25, 2017 12:00:00
AM for 1 day).

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"If God exists, what objection can he have to saying so?" [Lemuel K.
Washburn, _Is The Bible Worth Reading And Other Essays_]
  #67  
Old November 30th 17, 05:44 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Mark Lloyd[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 909
Default Dell computer with no input

On 11/30/2017 08:53 AM, Mayayana wrote:

[snip]

With an external hard disk you then depend
on a single backup that could fail. A power surge
could kill it while it's connected. A mechanical
failure could happen. An external disk is for expansion
or mobility, not for backup.


For backup, have TWO external drives and alternate the use of them. That
way, you almost always have two different backups (in case something
happens to one). Don't connect both drives to the computer at the same time.

[snip]

--
25 days until the winter celebration (Monday December 25, 2017 12:00:00
AM for 1 day).

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"If God exists, what objection can he have to saying so?" [Lemuel K.
Washburn, _Is The Bible Worth Reading And Other Essays_]
  #68  
Old November 30th 17, 05:46 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
NY
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 391
Default Dell computer with no input

"Mayayana" wrote in message
news
"NY" wrote

| I used to back up to CD-RW, when all my emails, documents etc would fit
onto
| one 650 MB disc (those were the days!). But it was painfully slow. Once
| portable self-powered hard discs became available, I changed over to
backing
| up to them.
|

I use DVDs. It takes maybe 5 minutes, which I
don't need to supervise. I keep everything I need
backed up regularly on a single data partition and
copy that partition to DVD. I don't see why anyone
would need more than 4 GB for *routine* backup.
I do have big stuff backed up to old hard disks and
USB sticks, but for routine it's easier and more stable
to use DVDs.


I've had more CD/DVD discs go bad (unreadable) on me than I have hard discs.

CDs and DVDs are fine for full backups, but if you do incremental backups of
just the files that you have changed since last backup, you gradually eat up
disc space which is only recoverable if you wipe the disc clean and start
again.

I back up all my photos. I currently have 770 GB of them. At present they
are backed up to a spare 1 TB drive that became free when I bought a 4 TB
drive internal drive (for photos and TV recordings) and used it to replace
the 1 TB drive.

Likewise I have about 1.7 TB of TV recordings which are backed up to a 2 TB
USB drive.

I find that optical discs are fine for easy transport to give to someone
else and can be played in a music CD player or a TV DVD player (though many
of those will now accept hard discs as an alternative, subject to the big
restriction that the drive must be formatted as FAT rather than NTFS). But
they are a pain if you want to back up more than will fit on a disc, or for
gradual incremental backups.


In the past I used to use 100 MB and 250 MB Zip discs which had the
advantage over optical that you could delete files and regain the space, but
the disadvantage that they were lower capacity. I kept the Zip drive until I
was sure that I didn't have anything on Zip disc that I didn't also have
elsewhere. Likewise for floppies: I made sure that all my floppies were
transferred to other storage before I got rid of the last PC with a floppy
drive.

  #69  
Old December 1st 17, 01:01 AM posted to alt.windows7.general
Mayayana
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,787
Default Dell computer with no input

"NY" wrote

| I've had more CD/DVD discs go bad (unreadable) on me than I have hard
discs.
|

I'm surprised that so many people say that. I've
*never* tried an old CD/DVD that I couldn't read. Last
week I was backing up email to a database, going
back 10 years. All the disks were fine.


  #70  
Old December 1st 17, 03:07 AM posted to alt.windows7.general
Nil[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,483
Default Dell computer with no input

On 30 Nov 2017, "Mayayana" wrote in
alt.windows7.general:

"NY" wrote

| I've had more CD/DVD discs go bad (unreadable) on me than I have
| hard discs.

I'm surprised that so many people say that. I've
*never* tried an old CD/DVD that I couldn't read. Last
week I was backing up email to a database, going
back 10 years. All the disks were fine.


Me, too. I have hundreds of CDRs and DVDRs and I could probably count
on one hand the number of them that have gone bad... and usually that's
because of physical damaged caused by me. I'm sure I've had
proportionally more hard disks go bad.
  #71  
Old December 1st 17, 04:42 AM posted to alt.windows7.general
pjp[_10_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 927
Default Dell computer with no input

In article , rednoise9
@REMOVETHIScomcast.net says...

On 30 Nov 2017, "Mayayana" wrote in
alt.windows7.general:

"NY" wrote

| I've had more CD/DVD discs go bad (unreadable) on me than I have
| hard discs.

I'm surprised that so many people say that. I've
*never* tried an old CD/DVD that I couldn't read. Last
week I was backing up email to a database, going
back 10 years. All the disks were fine.


Me, too. I have hundreds of CDRs and DVDRs and I could probably count
on one hand the number of them that have gone bad... and usually that's
because of physical damaged caused by me. I'm sure I've had
proportionally more hard disks go bad.


I've got 1000's of cds and dvds going back more than a decade now.
Everyone I've had need to "use" I've been able to read with only the
occassional disk requiring being put in a second or third reader before
it was properly seen. I ALWAYS verify burns. I trust them more than
backup drives and/or flash media. Mind you they're also properly stored.
  #72  
Old December 1st 17, 06:17 AM posted to alt.windows7.general
Char Jackson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8,809
Default Dell computer with no input

On Thu, 30 Nov 2017 23:42:05 -0400, pjp
wrote:

In article , rednoise9
says...

On 30 Nov 2017, "Mayayana" wrote in
alt.windows7.general:

"NY" wrote

| I've had more CD/DVD discs go bad (unreadable) on me than I have
| hard discs.

I'm surprised that so many people say that. I've
*never* tried an old CD/DVD that I couldn't read. Last
week I was backing up email to a database, going
back 10 years. All the disks were fine.


Me, too. I have hundreds of CDRs and DVDRs and I could probably count
on one hand the number of them that have gone bad... and usually that's
because of physical damaged caused by me. I'm sure I've had
proportionally more hard disks go bad.


I've got 1000's of cds and dvds going back more than a decade now.
Everyone I've had need to "use" I've been able to read with only the
occassional disk requiring being put in a second or third reader before
it was properly seen. I ALWAYS verify burns. I trust them more than
backup drives and/or flash media. Mind you they're also properly stored.


I'm surprised to see so many people coming to the rescue of optical
media. I used optical media from somewhere around 1998 to 2004, give or
take a year, and back then I didn't know of anyone who didn't have a
stack of coasters that they didn't know what to do with. Some people
made actual drink coasters, others used the back-side of the disc as a
clock face, things like that. I have memories of buying 50-pack spindles
and being happy to get more than 30 good burns. So my impression of
optical media is very poor, but maybe it's just a case of me getting out
before the industry had matured.

Even if true, there's no way I'm going back. A flash drive the size of
my thumb nail can contain the equivalent of 16 4GB DVDs or 100 650MB
CDRs, and I can carry the flash drive anywhere and use them anywhere. I
can't say the same about optical media, even if it has somehow emerged
as a stable medium in recent years.

As for the media types I trust most, it's hard drives, hands down. Flash
drives are a close second and optical media don't even make the list.

File this, I guess, under the heading of We're All Different.

--

Char Jackson
  #73  
Old December 1st 17, 08:00 AM posted to alt.windows7.general
Andy
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 579
Default Dell computer with no input

I agree char but what happens if the memory stick you have all that data and
or programs on dies with out warning.
And yes certain brands have a habit of doing just that.
What is youre brand of choice for memory sticks?
I use PNY or SanDisk no problems with either but each is included in my
daily back up routine.


--
AL'S COMPUTERS
"Char Jackson" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 30 Nov 2017 23:42:05 -0400, pjp
wrote:

In article , rednoise9
says...

On 30 Nov 2017, "Mayayana" wrote in
alt.windows7.general:

"NY" wrote

| I've had more CD/DVD discs go bad (unreadable) on me than I have
| hard discs.

I'm surprised that so many people say that. I've
*never* tried an old CD/DVD that I couldn't read. Last
week I was backing up email to a database, going
back 10 years. All the disks were fine.

Me, too. I have hundreds of CDRs and DVDRs and I could probably count
on one hand the number of them that have gone bad... and usually that's
because of physical damaged caused by me. I'm sure I've had
proportionally more hard disks go bad.


I've got 1000's of cds and dvds going back more than a decade now.
Everyone I've had need to "use" I've been able to read with only the
occassional disk requiring being put in a second or third reader before
it was properly seen. I ALWAYS verify burns. I trust them more than
backup drives and/or flash media. Mind you they're also properly stored.


I'm surprised to see so many people coming to the rescue of optical
media. I used optical media from somewhere around 1998 to 2004, give or
take a year, and back then I didn't know of anyone who didn't have a
stack of coasters that they didn't know what to do with. Some people
made actual drink coasters, others used the back-side of the disc as a
clock face, things like that. I have memories of buying 50-pack spindles
and being happy to get more than 30 good burns. So my impression of
optical media is very poor, but maybe it's just a case of me getting out
before the industry had matured.

Even if true, there's no way I'm going back. A flash drive the size of
my thumb nail can contain the equivalent of 16 4GB DVDs or 100 650MB
CDRs, and I can carry the flash drive anywhere and use them anywhere. I
can't say the same about optical media, even if it has somehow emerged
as a stable medium in recent years.

As for the media types I trust most, it's hard drives, hands down. Flash
drives are a close second and optical media don't even make the list.

File this, I guess, under the heading of We're All Different.

--

Char Jackson



  #74  
Old December 1st 17, 09:02 AM posted to alt.windows7.general
pjp[_10_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 927
Default Dell computer with no input

In article ,
lid says...

On Thu, 30 Nov 2017 23:42:05 -0400, pjp
wrote:

In article , rednoise9
says...

On 30 Nov 2017, "Mayayana" wrote in
alt.windows7.general:

"NY" wrote

| I've had more CD/DVD discs go bad (unreadable) on me than I have
| hard discs.

I'm surprised that so many people say that. I've
*never* tried an old CD/DVD that I couldn't read. Last
week I was backing up email to a database, going
back 10 years. All the disks were fine.

Me, too. I have hundreds of CDRs and DVDRs and I could probably count
on one hand the number of them that have gone bad... and usually that's
because of physical damaged caused by me. I'm sure I've had
proportionally more hard disks go bad.


I've got 1000's of cds and dvds going back more than a decade now.
Everyone I've had need to "use" I've been able to read with only the
occassional disk requiring being put in a second or third reader before
it was properly seen. I ALWAYS verify burns. I trust them more than
backup drives and/or flash media. Mind you they're also properly stored.


I'm surprised to see so many people coming to the rescue of optical
media. I used optical media from somewhere around 1998 to 2004, give or
take a year, and back then I didn't know of anyone who didn't have a
stack of coasters that they didn't know what to do with. Some people
made actual drink coasters, others used the back-side of the disc as a
clock face, things like that. I have memories of buying 50-pack spindles
and being happy to get more than 30 good burns. So my impression of
optical media is very poor, but maybe it's just a case of me getting out
before the industry had matured.

Even if true, there's no way I'm going back. A flash drive the size of
my thumb nail can contain the equivalent of 16 4GB DVDs or 100 650MB
CDRs, and I can carry the flash drive anywhere and use them anywhere. I
can't say the same about optical media, even if it has somehow emerged
as a stable medium in recent years.

As for the media types I trust most, it's hard drives, hands down. Flash
drives are a close second and optical media don't even make the list.


One sure trueism is that the larger the storage medium then the more is
lost when said medium fails. Least with optical you can often retrieve a
lot of it where-as with flashdrives and hard disks it tends to be an all
or nothing affair with limited number of attempts. Optical usually are
4.5 Gb which is a lot less to loose than my 3 Tb drives but I trust the
optical more. Mond you I don't use the disks every day, 99.5% are
burned/verified and then placed in storage. I keep copies of it all that
I require also on an accessible hard disk, e.g. music, movies etc. etc.

I do burn the occssional toaster but not nearly as many as days past.
 




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