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update/upgrade issues with migrated systems



 
 
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  #1  
Old December 4th 17, 04:35 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Jason
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 856
Default update/upgrade issues with migrated systems

I think I'm seeing a pattern. I know quite a few people who have been
experiencing the same difficulty with the latest updates that I've had on
two machines. And I know a number who haven't (including my wife). What
seems to differentiate those with trouble and those without is that
machines that were upgraded from earlier versions have problems while
those that shipped with an older version of 10 have not. Both machines of
mine with upgrade failures were upgraded from 7 to 10. Friends who had
versions greater than/equal to 7 are also running into similar trouble. It
is frustrating that the failures are not better understood by MS. I spent
a lot of time with their support folks who finally just gave up.

I was happy to see that MS finally figured out how to update older
versions without requiring a complete reinstallation, but I wonder now if
that improvement had some side effects that now cause issues that I and
others are facing.
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  #2  
Old December 4th 17, 06:57 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
VanguardLH[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8,830
Default update/upgrade issues with migrated systems

Jason wrote:

I think I'm seeing a pattern. I know quite a few people who have been
experiencing the same difficulty with the latest updates that I've had on
two machines. And I know a number who haven't (including my wife). What
seems to differentiate those with trouble and those without is that
machines that were upgraded from earlier versions have problems while
those that shipped with an older version of 10 have not. Both machines of
mine with upgrade failures were upgraded from 7 to 10. Friends who had
versions greater than/equal to 7 are also running into similar trouble. It
is frustrating that the failures are not better understood by MS. I spent
a lot of time with their support folks who finally just gave up.

I was happy to see that MS finally figured out how to update older
versions without requiring a complete reinstallation, but I wonder now if
that improvement had some side effects that now cause issues that I and
others are facing.


So you saying the problematic hosts are those that have polluted
upgrades; i.e., you got to Windows 10 from some prior version of
Windows. So why not do a clean install of Windows 10 (using the latest
download from Microsoft)?

Since when has there not been an upgrade from an old version of Windows
(within the same kernel type, like NT) to the next version of Windows?
Why is it only Windows 10 that had an upgrade path to it?

This is not a unique problem with Windows 10. It has been a long-time
recommendation to save your data, make sure you have the installation
media for your programs, wipe the OS partition (beforehand or during the
OS install), and do a fresh install of the OS. Don't bring along the
pollution from the old OS.
  #3  
Old December 5th 17, 04:06 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Jason
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 856
Default update/upgrade issues with migrated systems

On Sun, 3 Dec 2017 23:57:30 -0600 "VanguardLH" wrote in
article


So you saying the problematic hosts are those that have polluted
upgrades; i.e., you got to Windows 10 from some prior version of
Windows. So why not do a clean install of Windows 10 (using the latest
download from Microsoft)?


We've had this discussion recently. I have a very complex environment.
Sure, I can start from scratch but if MS offers me an opportunity to skip
all that then why would I not take it...except for the fact that MS can't
get it to work. After a lot of time with support, they could not tell me
why the upgrade failed. That's inexcusable.

Since when has there not been an upgrade from an old version of Windows
(within the same kernel type, like NT) to the next version of Windows?
Why is it only Windows 10 that had an upgrade path to it?


I don't think there was ever an upgrade path that did NOT require a clean
install until Win 10. That's always been my experience and it has always
been a real pain.


This is not a unique problem with Windows 10. It has been a long-time
recommendation to save your data, make sure you have the installation
media for your programs, wipe the OS partition (beforehand or during the
OS install), and do a fresh install of the OS. Don't bring along the
pollution from the old OS.


It is NOT pollution. It is a long-refined environment where I do my work.


  #4  
Old December 6th 17, 02:23 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Tim[_10_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 39
Default update/upgrade issues with migrated systems

Jason wrote in
:

I think I'm seeing a pattern. I know quite a few people who have been
experiencing the same difficulty with the latest updates that I've had
on two machines. And I know a number who haven't (including my wife).
What seems to differentiate those with trouble and those without is
that machines that were upgraded from earlier versions have problems
while those that shipped with an older version of 10 have not. Both
machines of mine with upgrade failures were upgraded from 7 to 10.
Friends who had versions greater than/equal to 7 are also running into
similar trouble. It is frustrating that the failures are not better
understood by MS. I spent a lot of time with their support folks who
finally just gave up.

I was happy to see that MS finally figured out how to update older
versions without requiring a complete reinstallation, but I wonder now
if that improvement had some side effects that now cause issues that I
and others are facing.


I finally succeeded in updating to 1709 today. I tried it before but it
threw an error some where and backed out. I didn't catch what the error
was so was somewhat in the dark. I did some research online, and one of
the things I saw was that some people were having problems with antivirus
software. So I disconnected from the internet, disabled Windows Defender
and Windows Firewall, and gave it another try. But not before imaging the
system drive again! An hour and twelve minutes later, all was gold.
Turned things back on, reconnected the ethernet cable, and business as
usual.

My System:

ASUS F2A85-V PRO (FM2) motherboard that was no longer front line in 2013
AMD A10-5800K
24 gb memory
Samsung EVO SSD for system drive
A bunch of WD and Seagate one and two terrabyte drives for data
Two large AOC monitors

As I was typing this I found that one problem I was having pre-upgrade is
still with me. Every so ofter, in no discernable pattern, my mouse slows
down and/or pauses. To me it looks like something is eating interrupts or
some such. Just now my system actually froze for a little bit. Even the
clock display in the task bar stopped updating. Over the years I have
learned to not do anything drastic until I really have to, so I left it
alone (while I answered a call of Nature) and everything is hunky dory
again. I'm sure I'll find out what it is sometime.

BTW This a system that has been continuously upgraded from Win7 to the
first Win10 and on until today. All Pro versions and 64bit.

And before anyone asks, all my adult life I have always bought the
previous versin of the hardware with the minimum RAM, because that was
what I could afford. When I built this system I had come into some money,
so price wasn't an issue, and I believe that this will probably be the
last sytem I will own. So I loaded up on RAM while I could afford it so I
would (hopefully) never have to add more down the line. So far I have
never seen the system use more than 6gb, even when running a couple of
video transcodes at the same time.


  #5  
Old December 6th 17, 03:36 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Jason
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 856
Default update/upgrade issues with migrated systems

On Tue, 5 Dec 2017 08:52:47 -0500 "Wolf K" wrote in
article

On 2017-12-04 22:06, Jason wrote:\[...]
After a lot of time with support, they could not tell me
why the upgrade failed. That's inexcusable.

[...]

Yes, Virginia, there are questions with no practical answers. That's the
way the world works.

It is NOT pollution. It is a long-refined environment where I do my work.


IOW, you have a system with an unusual combination of features and
tweaks. It's not surprising that the MS techs couldn't find a solution
to your problem.


It isn't *that* unusual - there's just a LOT of stuff, some quite ancient
but still in use.

I just wish that MS could have at least told me if the failure was
something software-related or a hardware incompatibility; the machine is
rather old.


Technical progress happens when people discover unanticipated problems.

Have a good day,



  #6  
Old December 6th 17, 03:40 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Jason
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 856
Default update/upgrade issues with migrated systems

On Wed, 06 Dec 2017 01:23:33 GMT "Tim" wrote in
article

I finally succeeded in updating to 1709 today. I tried it before but it
threw an error some where and backed out. I didn't catch what the error
was so was somewhat in the dark. I did some research online, and one of
the things I saw was that some people were having problems with antivirus
software. So I disconnected from the internet, disabled Windows Defender
and Windows Firewall, and gave it another try. But not before imaging the
system drive again! An hour and twelve minutes later, all was gold.
Turned things back on, reconnected the ethernet cable, and business as
usual.


The MS techs disabled my anti-v software but I'm not sure they killed off
both Windows' firewall -and- Defender. I'll give that a shot.


BTW This a system that has been continuously upgraded from Win7 to the
first Win10 and on until today. All Pro versions and 64bit.


That's interesting. It's the same path I've followed from 7 - 10,
skipping Vista. I had wondered here before if there were gremlins from
earlier versions that were preventing the upgrade, but it worked for you
so I guess not.

  #7  
Old December 6th 17, 08:22 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
VanguardLH[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8,830
Default update/upgrade issues with migrated systems

Jason wrote:

I just wish that MS could have at least told me if the failure was
something software-related or a hardware incompatibility; the machine is
rather old.


You can always save a backup image of the OS partition(s), do a fresh
install of the OS and drivers (but NO APPS, not even anti-virus), to
test if the problem remains or went away. Then you can decide if that
long-time refined setup is worth retaining or reinstall the apps, do the
tweaks, restore the data, and go forward with a non-polluted instance of
the OS. Or start saving for a new computer so your old one remains
usable until you decide to switch to the new one.
  #8  
Old December 6th 17, 08:26 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
VanguardLH[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8,830
Default update/upgrade issues with migrated systems

VanguardLH wrote:

Jason wrote:

I just wish that MS could have at least told me if the failure was
something software-related or a hardware incompatibility; the machine is
rather old.


You can always save a backup image of the OS partition(s), do a fresh
install of the OS and drivers (but NO APPS, not even anti-virus), to
test if the problem remains or went away. Then you can decide if that
long-time refined setup is worth retaining or reinstall the apps, do the
tweaks, restore the data, and go forward with a non-polluted instance of
the OS. Or start saving for a new computer so your old one remains
usable until you decide to switch to the new one.


Hmm, I don't see you mentioned disabling ALL startup programs and reboot
Windows? While in normal mode (before rebooting with startup programs
disabled), security software may require you use their UI to permanently
disable them during the test rather than, say, use msconfig.
  #9  
Old December 6th 17, 09:29 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
mike[_10_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 837
Default update/upgrade issues with migrated systems

On 12/5/2017 6:40 PM, Jason wrote:
On Wed, 06 Dec 2017 01:23:33 GMT "Tim" wrote in
article

I finally succeeded in updating to 1709 today. I tried it before but it
threw an error some where and backed out. I didn't catch what the error
was so was somewhat in the dark. I did some research online, and one of
the things I saw was that some people were having problems with antivirus
software. So I disconnected from the internet, disabled Windows Defender
and Windows Firewall, and gave it another try. But not before imaging the
system drive again! An hour and twelve minutes later, all was gold.
Turned things back on, reconnected the ethernet cable, and business as
usual.


The MS techs disabled my anti-v software but I'm not sure they killed off
both Windows' firewall -and- Defender. I'll give that a shot.


BTW This a system that has been continuously upgraded from Win7 to the
first Win10 and on until today. All Pro versions and 64bit.


That's interesting. It's the same path I've followed from 7 - 10,
skipping Vista. I had wondered here before if there were gremlins from
earlier versions that were preventing the upgrade, but it worked for you
so I guess not.


I've had upgrade problems with Comodo Internet Security.
If I uninstall Comodo, upgrade Win10, reinstall Comodo, it works fine.
  #12  
Old December 7th 17, 05:27 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Tim[_10_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 39
Default update/upgrade issues with migrated systems

Jason wrote in
:


That's interesting. It's the same path I've followed from 7 - 10,
skipping Vista. I had wondered here before if there were gremlins from
earlier versions that were preventing the upgrade, but it worked for
you so I guess not.


BTW, Vista came before Windows 7
  #13  
Old December 7th 17, 05:35 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Tim[_10_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 39
Default update/upgrade issues with migrated systems

Jason wrote in
:

On Tue, 5 Dec 2017 08:52:47 -0500 "Wolf K"
wrote in article

On 2017-12-04 22:06, Jason wrote:\[...]
After a lot of time with support, they could not tell me
why the upgrade failed. That's inexcusable.

[...]

Yes, Virginia, there are questions with no practical answers. That's
the way the world works.


I just wish that MS could have at least told me if the failure was
something software-related or a hardware incompatibility; the machine
is rather old.

Have you seen that picture of a young lady standing beside a pile of
program listings as tall as she is? She supposedly did most of the
programming for the early NASA flights. She had a limited number of
machines to test for, and knowledge of most if not all the programs, and I
will bet she still had problems tracking down bugs.

Now take the current version of Windows 10, IOS, MacOS, Android, whatever;
figure out that there will be an almost infinite number of permutations of
software installed from in this case Microsoft for Windows 10, and a bunch
of third party software whose programmers aren't known for always following
the rules, and tell me any normal sized team of support personnel will be
able to figure out which of the hundreds of reasons a system threw a
particular error code, if any at all, and how to fix it if they do figure
it out.
 




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