A Windows XP help forum. PCbanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » PCbanter forum » Windows 10 » Windows 10 Help Forum
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Help for a friend



 
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old December 4th 17, 11:12 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Alek
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 544
Default Help for a friend

A dear old friend called me in a panic -- "my computer won't boot".
Windows 10 on an 8-year-old PC.

I walked him though all the repair/restore/reset options and nothing worked.

Any thoughts as to what is wrong?

Since he needs to pay bills online no later than Thursday, I suggested
he go out and buy a new computer, and set it up for the most important
tasks. And then we can consider getting his files off the old HD onto
the new.

What do you think?

Please, no snarky remarks. We're both 83 y.o. and have lost a few brain
cells. No, he hasn't made any backups although he did copy some files to
thumb drives.

Oh, he lives an hour away and doesn't drive at night. I hardly drive at
all these days.

Thanks.
Ads
  #2  
Old December 4th 17, 11:43 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Alek
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 544
Default Help for a friend

Wellllllll, he rebooted one more time and guess what?

Alek wrote on 12/4/2017 5:12 PM:
A dear old friend called me in a panic -- "my computer won't boot".
Windows 10 on an 8-year-old PC.

I walked him though all the repair/restore/reset options and nothing worked.

Any thoughts as to what is wrong?

Since he needs to pay bills online no later than Thursday, I suggested
he go out and buy a new computer, and set it up for the most important
tasks. And then we can consider getting his files off the old HD onto
the new.

What do you think?

Please, no snarky remarks. We're both 83 y.o. and have lost a few brain
cells. No, he hasn't made any backups although he did copy some files to
thumb drives.

Oh, he lives an hour away and doesn't drive at night. I hardly drive at
all these days.

Thanks.

  #3  
Old December 4th 17, 11:46 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Big Al[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 957
Default Help for a friend

On 12/04/2017 05:43 PM, Alek wrote:
Wellllllll, he rebooted one more time and guess what?

Alek wrote on 12/4/2017 5:12 PM:
A dear old friend called me in a panic -- "my computer won't boot".
Windows 10 on an 8-year-old PC.

I walked him though all the repair/restore/reset options and nothing worked.

Any thoughts as to what is wrong?

Since he needs to pay bills online no later than Thursday, I suggested
he go out and buy a new computer, and set it up for the most important
tasks. And then we can consider getting his files off the old HD onto
the new.

What do you think?

Please, no snarky remarks. We're both 83 y.o. and have lost a few brain
cells. No, he hasn't made any backups although he did copy some files to
thumb drives.

Oh, he lives an hour away and doesn't drive at night. I hardly drive at
all these days.

Thanks.

Heat? Hurry with the new computer and make a backup with Macrium or
such, ASAP!
That's my 2cents..
  #4  
Old December 5th 17, 12:07 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Ed Cryer
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,310
Default Help for a friend

Big Al wrote:
On 12/04/2017 05:43 PM, Alek wrote:
Wellllllll, he rebooted one more time and guess what?

Alek wrote on 12/4/2017 5:12 PM:
A dear old friend called me in a panic -- "my computer won't boot".
Windows 10 on an 8-year-old PC.

I walked him though all the repair/restore/reset options and nothing
worked.

Any thoughts as to what is wrong?

Since he needs to pay bills online no later than Thursday, I suggested
he go out and buy a new computer, and set it up for the most important
tasks. And then we can consider getting his files off the old HD onto
the new.

What do you think?

Please, no snarky remarks. We're both 83 y.o. and have lost a few brain
cells. No, he hasn't made any backups although he did copy some files to
thumb drives.

Oh, he lives an hour away and doesn't drive at night. I hardly drive at
all these days.

Thanks.

Heat?** Hurry with the new computer and make a backup with Macrium or
such, ASAP!
That's my 2cents..


And tell your friend that many public libraries have computer rooms
these days, where you can use one for free.
Our one gives you a 1-hour slot.

Ed

  #5  
Old December 5th 17, 12:21 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Keith Nuttle
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,415
Default Help for a friend

On 12/4/2017 5:46 PM, Big Al wrote:
On 12/04/2017 05:43 PM, Alek wrote:
Wellllllll, he rebooted one more time and guess what?

Alek wrote on 12/4/2017 5:12 PM:
A dear old friend called me in a panic -- "my computer won't boot".
Windows 10 on an 8-year-old PC.

I walked him though all the repair/restore/reset options and nothing
worked.

Any thoughts as to what is wrong?

Since he needs to pay bills online no later than Thursday, I suggested
he go out and buy a new computer, and set it up for the most important
tasks. And then we can consider getting his files off the old HD onto
the new.

What do you think?

Please, no snarky remarks. We're both 83 y.o. and have lost a few brain
cells. No, he hasn't made any backups although he did copy some files to
thumb drives.

Oh, he lives an hour away and doesn't drive at night. I hardly drive at
all these days.

Thanks.

Heat?** Hurry with the new computer and make a backup with Macrium or
such, ASAP!
That's my 2cents..

I would second the motion. Once you start having boot problems the
count down starts for the end of the computer.

I have had several computers that I was able to get through several
"won't boot" episodes but eventually had to replace the computer. The
last one went "POP" during the final attempt.

If he is just using it for email, and online banking he does not need a
high end computer and should be able to get a new one for 3 to 5 hundred
dollars. Since he probably has not done much customization to the OS,
all he needs to worry about is his data files which are mostly stored in
My Documents (Windows OS. For things like Firefox and Thunderbird, if
he backs up each of the profiles for the USER folder, he will not loose
anything. If he is using one of the Mozilla products, he can back up
all of his web settings by copying the Profile for TB and FF to an
external disk.

If he has a limited budget I would also recommend that he get at minimum
of 32 GB thumb drive and back up all of his data files. If he wants he
could buy a 1TB external drive for less that $100 though my guess is he
does not need that much storage space.

A good, easy to use back up program is available at

https://www.2brightsparks.com/downlo...cbackfree.html

Which will work with a thumb drive, or other types of external storage.

Just because the boot sector is bad or corrupted, does not mean that the
disk can not be used. The easiest way to transfer data, is to buy a USB
Disk enclosure for the old disk. The old disk can then be plugged into
the USB port of the new computer and the files copied to his new
computer. I have been using a "failed" laptop drive for years as an
external backup drive

One point, to make a disk image (Macrium) is probably over kill for the
way he uses the computer. With a disk failure, (Improbable in his
lifetime with a new computer, at least at 74 that's the way I see it)
the OS, and All of the programs can be reinstalled either from the
manufacturer website or the installation CD.
If you do a complete re installation you get start fresh with none of
the garage that you have collected over the years and a chance to review
the settings of all of you programs.






--
2017: The year we learn to play the great game of Euchre
  #6  
Old December 5th 17, 12:33 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
VanguardLH[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8,830
Default Help for a friend

Alek wrote:

A dear old friend called me in a panic -- "my computer won't boot".
Windows 10 on an 8-year-old PC.

I walked him though all the repair/restore/reset options and nothing worked.


Your friend didn't burn a CD from Microsoft when he downloaded the ISO
image? If your friend bought a pre-built computer with a pre-installed
instance of Windows 10, why can't he use the install CD or rescue
partition to do a repair install or even a full fresh install?

Any thoughts as to what is wrong?

Since he needs to pay bills online no later than Thursday, I suggested
he go out and buy a new computer, and set it up for the most important
tasks. And then we can consider getting his files off the old HD onto
the new.


Where does your friend pay bills online that the same companies won't
accept phone calls to perform an ACH electronic transfer from his bank?
The "online payments" are going to perform ACH transfers from his bank
so call them up to have them perform it manually.

What do you think?


Your friend doesn't have OTHER friends with a computer? This friend
doesn't have any closer computer-capable friends not so tight on their
schedules that they could come over to help?

Does this friend have a smartphone? They could use the the web browser
on their smartphone (but do it from a home wi-fi and not on some public
wi-fi hotspot).

If your friend is okay with using a the library computers (just use the
terminals that aren't wifi-connected) then have your friend trek to the
library. Have your friend try to erase any locally cached data after he
is done (or ask the librarian if the kiosk-mode terminal wipes all
session data after the session is ended).
  #7  
Old December 5th 17, 12:39 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Big Al[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 957
Default Help for a friend

On 12/04/2017 06:21 PM, Keith Nuttle wrote:
all he needs to worry about is his data files which are mostly stored in
My Documents (Windows OS.* For things like Firefox and Thunderbird, if
he backs up each of the profiles for the USER folder, he will not loose
anything.


I just checked my personal folder (only user) and It's like 8Gig.
So yes, A simple 16 or 32G thumb would easily copy that.
And a good number of programs drop config files into that user folder.

And yes, Macrium is only good if the drive is going bad. My overkill.
  #8  
Old December 5th 17, 12:42 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Alek
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 544
Default Help for a friend

Ed Cryer wrote on 12/4/2017 6:07 PM:
Big Al wrote:
On 12/04/2017 05:43 PM, Alek wrote:
Wellllllll, he rebooted one more time and guess what?

Alek wrote on 12/4/2017 5:12 PM:
A dear old friend called me in a panic -- "my computer won't boot".
Windows 10 on an 8-year-old PC.

I walked him though all the repair/restore/reset options and nothing
worked.

Any thoughts as to what is wrong?

Since he needs to pay bills online no later than Thursday, I suggested
he go out and buy a new computer, and set it up for the most important
tasks. And then we can consider getting his files off the old HD onto
the new.

What do you think?

Please, no snarky remarks. We're both 83 y.o. and have lost a few brain
cells. No, he hasn't made any backups although he did copy some files to
thumb drives.

Oh, he lives an hour away and doesn't drive at night. I hardly drive at
all these days.

Thanks.

Heat?** Hurry with the new computer and make a backup with Macrium or
such, ASAP!
That's my 2cents..


And tell your friend that many public libraries have computer rooms
these days, where you can use one for free.
Our one gives you a 1-hour slot.

Ed


I wouldn't recommend paying bills with a public computer.

  #9  
Old December 5th 17, 12:43 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Keith Nuttle
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,415
Default Help for a friend Off Topic


One point, to make a disk image (Macrium) is probably over kill for the
way he uses the computer.


As I was writing the above, I was reminded of an old joke.

8 year old Billy comes home from school and ask his Father: "Where did
I come from?"

The Father has been dreading the day that "The Subject" would come up,
but decide to take it straight on, and gave the little boy the whole
lecture on where babies come from, down to the smallest detail.

Billy listens but has trouble staying his father's talk.

After about a half hour of explanation, the Father ask Billy if he has
any questions.

Billy responded: "I just wanted to know where I come from. My friend
Pete comes from Cleveland"


--
2017: The year we learn to play the great game of Euchre
  #10  
Old December 5th 17, 12:44 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Alek
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 544
Default Help for a friend

Thanks.

VanguardLH wrote on 12/4/2017 6:33 PM:
Alek wrote:

A dear old friend called me in a panic -- "my computer won't boot".
Windows 10 on an 8-year-old PC.

I walked him though all the repair/restore/reset options and nothing worked.


Your friend didn't burn a CD from Microsoft when he downloaded the ISO
image? If your friend bought a pre-built computer with a pre-installed
instance of Windows 10, why can't he use the install CD or rescue
partition to do a repair install or even a full fresh install?

Any thoughts as to what is wrong?

Since he needs to pay bills online no later than Thursday, I suggested
he go out and buy a new computer, and set it up for the most important
tasks. And then we can consider getting his files off the old HD onto
the new.


Where does your friend pay bills online that the same companies won't
accept phone calls to perform an ACH electronic transfer from his bank?
The "online payments" are going to perform ACH transfers from his bank
so call them up to have them perform it manually.

What do you think?


Your friend doesn't have OTHER friends with a computer? This friend
doesn't have any closer computer-capable friends not so tight on their
schedules that they could come over to help?

Does this friend have a smartphone? They could use the the web browser
on their smartphone (but do it from a home wi-fi and not on some public
wi-fi hotspot).

If your friend is okay with using a the library computers (just use the
terminals that aren't wifi-connected) then have your friend trek to the
library. Have your friend try to erase any locally cached data after he
is done (or ask the librarian if the kiosk-mode terminal wipes all
session data after the session is ended).

  #11  
Old December 5th 17, 01:07 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Paul[_32_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,491
Default Help for a friend

Alek wrote:
Wellllllll, he rebooted one more time and guess what?

Alek wrote on 12/4/2017 5:12 PM:
A dear old friend called me in a panic -- "my computer won't boot".
Windows 10 on an 8-year-old PC.

I walked him though all the repair/restore/reset options and nothing worked.

Any thoughts as to what is wrong?

Since he needs to pay bills online no later than Thursday, I suggested
he go out and buy a new computer, and set it up for the most important
tasks. And then we can consider getting his files off the old HD onto
the new.

What do you think?

Please, no snarky remarks. We're both 83 y.o. and have lost a few brain
cells. No, he hasn't made any backups although he did copy some files to
thumb drives.

Oh, he lives an hour away and doesn't drive at night. I hardly drive at
all these days.

Thanks.


The Windows "repair" routine at boot time, is a *three* pass process.

Each time the computer fails to boot, the repair
process tries different things. So after three boot
attempts, this is what it's done...

1) first failure, maybe repair the BCD.
2) second failure ???
3) third failure runs CHKDSK, and it reads each and every
stinking sector. This is why you don't want that C: partition
to be 1TB large. Keep your C: partition down to maybe 60GB or so,
and then the third repair pass will take less time.

If you try to reboot over and over again, the
third attempt will be slower than the others.

After three attempts, it'll give up and tell
you to call a priest.

*******

Note that Macrium Reflect Free, the emergency boot CD that the
program makes, it has a menu item called "boot repair". That's
similar to (1) above.

I've discovered, by various dumb experiments, that the combination
of doing the Macrium boot repair, followed by the Windows boot
repair, increases the odds of the partition booting again.
Exactly what's going on there, I haven't a clue. And if you
only do one of the two (use Macrium by itself), neither of them
gets it right all by themselves. But a one-two punch seems
to work. This is mainly for cases where the BCD got corrupted
somehow. And in cases where I was working on this, I wasn't
really in a mood for forensics, and seeing what broke :-)

If you boot the Windows installer DVD, or if you boot
the emergency boot CD that the "Windows 7 backup" dialog
offers, there is a maintenance icon in there that
handles repair. So you can check that out for fun, if
you're not booting.

Startup Repair on Windows CD or DVD

https://www.tenforums.com/attachment...up_options.png

From this article

https://www.tenforums.com/attachment...up_options.png

If you want to manually invoke Startup Repair,
there's an icon for that.

*******

Let's take a dumb example:

1) User tried three times to boot.
Call a priest message shows up. Uh oh.

2) Boot emergency CD and open Command Prompt.
You can run CHKDSK from there if you want,
or fool around.

3) Boot Macrium Reflect Free CD. Run the boot repair.

4) Boot the Windows emergency CD or the Windows
installer DVD. Find the Startup Repair icon
and finish what Macrium started. On your
next reboot, it might boot again.

There is actually a metric ton of fun things to
do now, when the computer is broken. In (2) for
example, you can do an offline DISM run (repair
WinSXS), or do an offline sfc /scannow. As well
as do offline BCD work. (The boot repair will
have already tried this in (1) so you don't
have to.) There have been some improvements
over what the other OS versions support.

HTH,
Paul
  #12  
Old December 5th 17, 01:21 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
jbm[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 157
Default Help for a friend

On 04/12/2017 23:07, Ed Cryer wrote:


And tell your friend that many public libraries have computer rooms
these days, where you can use one for free.
Our one gives you a 1-hour slot.

Ed


You're lucky. Where I live in the UK they start charging you as soon as
you sit down - £1 for every 20 minutes.

jim

  #13  
Old December 5th 17, 01:34 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Bentot
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8
Default Help for a friend

On Mon, 4 Dec 2017 18:42:24 -0500, Alek
wrote:

Ed Cryer wrote on 12/4/2017 6:07 PM:
Big Al wrote:
On 12/04/2017 05:43 PM, Alek wrote:
Wellllllll, he rebooted one more time and guess what?

Alek wrote on 12/4/2017 5:12 PM:
A dear old friend called me in a panic -- "my computer won't boot".
Windows 10 on an 8-year-old PC.

I walked him though all the repair/restore/reset options and nothing
worked.

Any thoughts as to what is wrong?

Since he needs to pay bills online no later than Thursday, I suggested
he go out and buy a new computer, and set it up for the most important
tasks. And then we can consider getting his files off the old HD onto
the new.

What do you think?

Please, no snarky remarks. We're both 83 y.o. and have lost a few brain
cells. No, he hasn't made any backups although he did copy some files to
thumb drives.

Oh, he lives an hour away and doesn't drive at night. I hardly drive at
all these days.

Thanks.

Heat?** Hurry with the new computer and make a backup with Macrium or
such, ASAP!
That's my 2cents..


And tell your friend that many public libraries have computer rooms
these days, where you can use one for free.
Our one gives you a 1-hour slot.

Ed


I wouldn't recommend paying bills with a public computer.


+1

bentot
  #14  
Old December 5th 17, 01:53 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Alek
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 544
Default Help for a friend

Thanks but this is too sophisticated for him. Also, his nearest
grandkids are TWO hours away. (Mine is FIVE but her mom and dad and aunt
and uncle are computer pros :-)

Paul wrote on 12/4/2017 7:07 PM:
Alek wrote:
Wellllllll, he rebooted one more time and guess what?

Alek wrote on 12/4/2017 5:12 PM:
A dear old friend called me in a panic -- "my computer won't boot".
Windows 10 on an 8-year-old PC.

I walked him though all the repair/restore/reset options and nothing worked.

Any thoughts as to what is wrong?

Since he needs to pay bills online no later than Thursday, I suggested
he go out and buy a new computer, and set it up for the most important
tasks. And then we can consider getting his files off the old HD onto
the new.

What do you think?

Please, no snarky remarks. We're both 83 y.o. and have lost a few brain
cells. No, he hasn't made any backups although he did copy some files to
thumb drives.

Oh, he lives an hour away and doesn't drive at night. I hardly drive at
all these days.

Thanks.


The Windows "repair" routine at boot time, is a *three* pass process.

Each time the computer fails to boot, the repair
process tries different things. So after three boot
attempts, this is what it's done...

1) first failure, maybe repair the BCD.
2) second failure ???
3) third failure runs CHKDSK, and it reads each and every
stinking sector. This is why you don't want that C: partition
to be 1TB large. Keep your C: partition down to maybe 60GB or so,
and then the third repair pass will take less time.

If you try to reboot over and over again, the
third attempt will be slower than the others.

After three attempts, it'll give up and tell
you to call a priest.

*******

Note that Macrium Reflect Free, the emergency boot CD that the
program makes, it has a menu item called "boot repair". That's
similar to (1) above.

I've discovered, by various dumb experiments, that the combination
of doing the Macrium boot repair, followed by the Windows boot
repair, increases the odds of the partition booting again.
Exactly what's going on there, I haven't a clue. And if you
only do one of the two (use Macrium by itself), neither of them
gets it right all by themselves. But a one-two punch seems
to work. This is mainly for cases where the BCD got corrupted
somehow. And in cases where I was working on this, I wasn't
really in a mood for forensics, and seeing what broke :-)

If you boot the Windows installer DVD, or if you boot
the emergency boot CD that the "Windows 7 backup" dialog
offers, there is a maintenance icon in there that
handles repair. So you can check that out for fun, if
you're not booting.

Startup Repair on Windows CD or DVD

https://www.tenforums.com/attachment...up_options.png

From this article

https://www.tenforums.com/attachment...up_options.png

If you want to manually invoke Startup Repair,
there's an icon for that.

*******

Let's take a dumb example:

1) User tried three times to boot.
Call a priest message shows up. Uh oh.

2) Boot emergency CD and open Command Prompt.
You can run CHKDSK from there if you want,
or fool around.

3) Boot Macrium Reflect Free CD. Run the boot repair.

4) Boot the Windows emergency CD or the Windows
installer DVD. Find the Startup Repair icon
and finish what Macrium started. On your
next reboot, it might boot again.

There is actually a metric ton of fun things to
do now, when the computer is broken. In (2) for
example, you can do an offline DISM run (repair
WinSXS), or do an offline sfc /scannow. As well
as do offline BCD work. (The boot repair will
have already tried this in (1) so you don't
have to.) There have been some improvements
over what the other OS versions support.

HTH,
Paul

  #15  
Old December 5th 17, 10:02 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Bob Henson[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 692
Default Help for a friend

jbm wrote:

On 04/12/2017 23:07, Ed Cryer wrote:


And tell your friend that many public libraries have computer rooms
these days, where you can use one for free.
Our one gives you a 1-hour slot.

Ed


You're lucky. Where I live in the UK they start charging you as soon as
you sit down - 1 for every 20 minutes.


Wow! That's steep. In Gloucestershire they're all free one hour slots. You
even get free volunteer computer buddies to help if you're struggling. The
only thing they charge for is printing.


--
Bob
Tetbury, Gloucestershire, England

I contend that for a nation to try to tax itself into prosperity is like a
man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle. -
Winston Churchill
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off






All times are GMT +1. The time now is 07:20 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2004-2017 PCbanter.
The comments are property of their posters.