A Windows XP help forum. PCbanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » PCbanter forum » Microsoft Windows XP » General XP issues or comments
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

dog ate my desktop



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #16  
Old December 27th 17, 05:07 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
No_Name
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 448
Default dog ate my desktop

On Tue, 26 Dec 2017 23:21:43 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
wrote:

In message , Shadow
writes:
On Tue, 26 Dec 2017 17:57:04 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
wrote:

In message , Paul
writes:
[]
On WinXP, files outside your "My Documents" tree
are tracked. Say you normally keep Firefox downloads
[]
Restore Point. Files kept in the "officially blessed"
parts of C: are unaffected, so nothing in My Documents
gets added or subtracted to match the way it was
three days ago.

Paul

Are you saying _everything_ else - or maybe everything else on C: - gets
tracked, and potentially restored (synced)? This must make for a huge
tracking area (if for example you [or the system] delete a few feature
films).


They have another record in the NTFS stream and also various
in the registry. Long after you deleted the original files. Yes, it's
there for forensic purposes. What else ?
[]'s

I wasn't in tinfoil-hat mode - just more surprised at the storage
involved. From what is said above, if you deleted a few feature films,
then unless you were storing them in an "officially blessed" area,
invoking a Restore Point would magically restore them; I was just
thinking that, if true, this implies a backup storage area as big as
your disc (or maybe half as big), which seems unlikely,


System Restore does not restore all of the data, only the internals of
Windows necessary to make it run. An image is just that, a bit copy of
the drive. Images are very big, essentially the same size as all of
the data on the drive, minus whatever compression they may do. Hence
trying to make C: as small as you can. (like not storing media files
there). You can easily back up and restore "data" simply using COPY or
drag and drop. Getting a working version of a post W/98 windows system
is more complicated. XCOPY worked OK to copy a W/98 machine with the
right switches.
Ads
  #17  
Old December 28th 17, 02:53 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
J. P. Gilliver (John)[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,041
Default dog ate my desktop

In message ,
writes:
On Tue, 26 Dec 2017 23:21:43 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
wrote:

In message , Shadow
writes:
On Tue, 26 Dec 2017 17:57:04 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
wrote:

In message , Paul
writes:
[]
On WinXP, files outside your "My Documents" tree
are tracked. Say you normally keep Firefox downloads
[]
Restore Point. Files kept in the "officially blessed"
parts of C: are unaffected, so nothing in My Documents
gets added or subtracted to match the way it was
three days ago.

Paul

Are you saying _everything_ else - or maybe everything else on C: - gets
tracked, and potentially restored (synced)? This must make for a huge
tracking area (if for example you [or the system] delete a few feature
films).

They have another record in the NTFS stream and also various
in the registry. Long after you deleted the original files. Yes, it's
there for forensic purposes. What else ?
[]'s

I wasn't in tinfoil-hat mode - just more surprised at the storage
involved. From what is said above, if you deleted a few feature films,
then unless you were storing them in an "officially blessed" area,
invoking a Restore Point would magically restore them; I was just
thinking that, if true, this implies a backup storage area as big as
your disc (or maybe half as big), which seems unlikely,


System Restore does not restore all of the data, only the internals of
Windows necessary to make it run. An image is just that, a bit copy of
the drive. Images are very big, essentially the same size as all of
the data on the drive, minus whatever compression they may do. Hence
trying to make C: as small as you can. (like not storing media files
there). You can easily back up and restore "data" simply using COPY or
drag and drop. Getting a working version of a post W/98 windows system
is more complicated. XCOPY worked OK to copy a W/98 machine with the
right switches.


I know what an image is. And for what I thought was that reason, I keep
as little data on my C: partition as software will let me. The line
above that surprised me was 'files outside your "My Documents" tree are
tracked'; this was in the context of System Restores, not images.

The _implication_ was that _all_ files (outside the tree) are tracked
(and restored at a System Restore, which would necessitate copies of
_all_ files deleted being stored somewhere - which seemed unlikely to me
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)[email protected]+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Well I wish you'd just tell me, rather than trying to engage my enthusiasm,
because I haven't got one. (Marvin; first series, fit the fifth.)
  #18  
Old December 28th 17, 05:50 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
No_Name
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 448
Default dog ate my desktop

On Thu, 28 Dec 2017 01:53:21 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
wrote:

In message ,
writes:
On Tue, 26 Dec 2017 23:21:43 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
wrote:

In message , Shadow
writes:
On Tue, 26 Dec 2017 17:57:04 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
wrote:

In message , Paul
writes:
[]
On WinXP, files outside your "My Documents" tree
are tracked. Say you normally keep Firefox downloads
[]
Restore Point. Files kept in the "officially blessed"
parts of C: are unaffected, so nothing in My Documents
gets added or subtracted to match the way it was
three days ago.

Paul

Are you saying _everything_ else - or maybe everything else on C: - gets
tracked, and potentially restored (synced)? This must make for a huge
tracking area (if for example you [or the system] delete a few feature
films).

They have another record in the NTFS stream and also various
in the registry. Long after you deleted the original files. Yes, it's
there for forensic purposes. What else ?
[]'s
I wasn't in tinfoil-hat mode - just more surprised at the storage
involved. From what is said above, if you deleted a few feature films,
then unless you were storing them in an "officially blessed" area,
invoking a Restore Point would magically restore them; I was just
thinking that, if true, this implies a backup storage area as big as
your disc (or maybe half as big), which seems unlikely,


System Restore does not restore all of the data, only the internals of
Windows necessary to make it run. An image is just that, a bit copy of
the drive. Images are very big, essentially the same size as all of
the data on the drive, minus whatever compression they may do. Hence
trying to make C: as small as you can. (like not storing media files
there). You can easily back up and restore "data" simply using COPY or
drag and drop. Getting a working version of a post W/98 windows system
is more complicated. XCOPY worked OK to copy a W/98 machine with the
right switches.


I know what an image is. And for what I thought was that reason, I keep
as little data on my C: partition as software will let me. The line
above that surprised me was 'files outside your "My Documents" tree are
tracked'; this was in the context of System Restores, not images.

The _implication_ was that _all_ files (outside the tree) are tracked
(and restored at a System Restore, which would necessitate copies of
_all_ files deleted being stored somewhere - which seemed unlikely to me


From the help
"Restoring your computer does not affect or change your personal data
files."
  #19  
Old December 28th 17, 07:44 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Paul[_32_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,886
Default dog ate my desktop

wrote:
On Thu, 28 Dec 2017 01:53:21 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
wrote:

In message ,
writes:
On Tue, 26 Dec 2017 23:21:43 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
wrote:

In message , Shadow
writes:
On Tue, 26 Dec 2017 17:57:04 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
wrote:

In message , Paul
writes:
[]
On WinXP, files outside your "My Documents" tree
are tracked. Say you normally keep Firefox downloads
[]
Restore Point. Files kept in the "officially blessed"
parts of C: are unaffected, so nothing in My Documents
gets added or subtracted to match the way it was
three days ago.

Paul
Are you saying _everything_ else - or maybe everything else on C: - gets
tracked, and potentially restored (synced)? This must make for a huge
tracking area (if for example you [or the system] delete a few feature
films).
They have another record in the NTFS stream and also various
in the registry. Long after you deleted the original files. Yes, it's
there for forensic purposes. What else ?
[]'s
I wasn't in tinfoil-hat mode - just more surprised at the storage
involved. From what is said above, if you deleted a few feature films,
then unless you were storing them in an "officially blessed" area,
invoking a Restore Point would magically restore them; I was just
thinking that, if true, this implies a backup storage area as big as
your disc (or maybe half as big), which seems unlikely,
System Restore does not restore all of the data, only the internals of
Windows necessary to make it run. An image is just that, a bit copy of
the drive. Images are very big, essentially the same size as all of
the data on the drive, minus whatever compression they may do. Hence
trying to make C: as small as you can. (like not storing media files
there). You can easily back up and restore "data" simply using COPY or
drag and drop. Getting a working version of a post W/98 windows system
is more complicated. XCOPY worked OK to copy a W/98 machine with the
right switches.

I know what an image is. And for what I thought was that reason, I keep
as little data on my C: partition as software will let me. The line
above that surprised me was 'files outside your "My Documents" tree are
tracked'; this was in the context of System Restores, not images.

The _implication_ was that _all_ files (outside the tree) are tracked
(and restored at a System Restore, which would necessitate copies of
_all_ files deleted being stored somewhere - which seemed unlikely to me


From the help
"Restoring your computer does not affect or change your personal data
files."


True.

If you do things the "Microsoft way" and
stay in My Documents like a good boy.

OK, let's try an experiment. This is a virtual machine
containing WinXP, from modernie.com (a Microsoft site).
I got this virtual machine a number of years ago, before
Microsoft removed them (because "WinXP isn't supported" yadda yadda).

https://s17.postimg.org/w2ewlgba7/sr_before.gif

https://s17.postimg.org/7lwqr0d4f/sr_after.gif

OK, so here is the time line.

1) 10:11:29 PM Set a restore point entitled
"And files after this will be deleted"
2) 10:13 PM Create one.exe and two.exe in
C:\Downloads. EXE files are on the
"tracked" list. (See Burts web page.)
3) 10:24 PM The "current time" in the sr_before picture.
And I take this picture, just as I am about
to click the "restore" buttom.
4) 10:26 PM The "current time" in the sr_after picture.
I just opened C:\Downloads for a look and
my two EXE files were erased. Why ? Because
at 10:11 when the restore point was set, those
files didn't exist in C:\Downloads, and that's
the way it's gonna be after the restore to 10:11 point.

Now, I also did the experiment with "one.txt" and "two.txt".
That file extension is *not* tracked. When the restore was
clicked, one.txt and two.txt were not erased from C:\Downloads.
They were still there.

If I'd placed one.exe and two.exe inside My Documents,
they would have been safe. I didn't bother running
that test case.

All I really needed to do in this case, is demonstrate
a "danger", and leave it to you to plan accordingly.
(With a "safety backup" done in a trustworthy way.)

I first discovered this, by having files erased on me
after using a Restore Point. I didn't actually read the
SR site until after that.

Paul
  #20  
Old December 28th 17, 06:09 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
J. P. Gilliver (John)[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,041
Default dog ate my desktop

In message , Paul
writes:
wrote:
On Thu, 28 Dec 2017 01:53:21 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
wrote:

In message ,
writes:
On Tue, 26 Dec 2017 23:21:43 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
wrote:

In message , Shadow
writes:
On Tue, 26 Dec 2017 17:57:04 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
wrote:

In message , Paul
writes:
[]
On WinXP, files outside your "My Documents" tree
are tracked. Say you normally keep Firefox downloads
[]
Restore Point. Files kept in the "officially blessed"
parts of C: are unaffected, so nothing in My Documents
gets added or subtracted to match the way it was
three days ago.

Paul
Are you saying _everything_ else - or maybe everything else on C: - gets
tracked, and potentially restored (synced)? This must make for a huge
tracking area (if for example you [or the system] delete a few feature
films).
They have another record in the NTFS stream and also various
in the registry. Long after you deleted the original files. Yes, it's
there for forensic purposes. What else ?
[]'s
I wasn't in tinfoil-hat mode - just more surprised at the storage
involved. From what is said above, if you deleted a few feature films,
then unless you were storing them in an "officially blessed" area,
invoking a Restore Point would magically restore them; I was just
thinking that, if true, this implies a backup storage area as big as
your disc (or maybe half as big), which seems unlikely,
System Restore does not restore all of the data, only the internals of
Windows necessary to make it run. An image is just that, a bit copy of
the drive. Images are very big, essentially the same size as all of
the data on the drive, minus whatever compression they may do. Hence
trying to make C: as small as you can. (like not storing media files
there). You can easily back up and restore "data" simply using COPY or
drag and drop. Getting a working version of a post W/98 windows system
is more complicated. XCOPY worked OK to copy a W/98 machine with the
right switches.
I know what an image is. And for what I thought was that reason, I
keep as little data on my C: partition as software will let me. The
line above that surprised me was 'files outside your "My Documents"
tree are tracked'; this was in the context of System Restores, not images.

The _implication_ was that _all_ files (outside the tree) are
tracked (and restored at a System Restore, which would necessitate
copies of _all_ files deleted being stored somewhere - which seemed
unlikely to me

From the help
"Restoring your computer does not affect or change your personal data
files."


True.

If you do things the "Microsoft way" and
stay in My Documents like a good boy.

OK, let's try an experiment. This is a virtual machine
containing WinXP, from modernie.com (a Microsoft site).
I got this virtual machine a number of years ago, before
Microsoft removed them (because "WinXP isn't supported" yadda yadda).

https://s17.postimg.org/w2ewlgba7/sr_before.gif

https://s17.postimg.org/7lwqr0d4f/sr_after.gif

OK, so here is the time line.

1) 10:11:29 PM Set a restore point entitled
"And files after this will be deleted"
2) 10:13 PM Create one.exe and two.exe in
C:\Downloads. EXE files are on the
"tracked" list. (See Burts web page.)
3) 10:24 PM The "current time" in the sr_before picture.
And I take this picture, just as I am about
to click the "restore" buttom.
4) 10:26 PM The "current time" in the sr_after picture.
I just opened C:\Downloads for a look and
my two EXE files were erased. Why ? Because
at 10:11 when the restore point was set, those
files didn't exist in C:\Downloads, and that's
the way it's gonna be after the restore to 10:11 point.

Now, I also did the experiment with "one.txt" and "two.txt".
That file extension is *not* tracked. When the restore was
clicked, one.txt and two.txt were not erased from C:\Downloads.
They were still there.

If I'd placed one.exe and two.exe inside My Documents,
they would have been safe. I didn't bother running
that test case.

All I really needed to do in this case, is demonstrate
a "danger", and leave it to you to plan accordingly.
(With a "safety backup" done in a trustworthy way.)

I first discovered this, by having files erased on me
after using a Restore Point. I didn't actually read the
SR site until after that.

Paul


So you've proved (for some value of "proved") that files created after
the restore point are deleted by invoking it.

How about the other case: 'files outside your "My Documents" tree are
tracked' also _implies_ that files that _did_ exist when the restore
point was created, but were subsequently deleted, will magically
reappear when it's invoked. This was the bit I found hard to swallow.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)[email protected]+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur". ("Anything is more impressive if
you say it in Latin")
  #21  
Old December 28th 17, 07:54 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Paul[_32_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,886
Default dog ate my desktop

J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:


How about the other case: 'files outside your "My Documents" tree are
tracked' also _implies_ that files that _did_ exist when the restore
point was created, but were subsequently deleted, will magically
reappear when it's invoked. This was the bit I found hard to swallow.


That's possible and likely to happen.

Why not test it ? :-)

*******

This is what VMs are for.

In the pictures I took, I was running WinXP on top of WinXP.

The VM was allocated 512MB, which means even a modest amount
of RAM allows VM testing. In this picture, I show two hosting
softwares, and the VMs inside. You cannot run these programs
at the same time, because they have the same Hypervisor
model and wouldn't "share nice" with one another.

https://s17.postimg.org/f6mg0zvbj/vi...winxp_host.gif

For other OSes, 1GB is a handy amount of RAM to use. And
OSes like Win10, are a bit of a pig unless you have
powerful hardware. A quad core is a good place to start
with something like that. I do run Win10 x32 on top of
WinXP x32 using VirtualBox on a dual core processor,
but it can be pretty damn slow at times. It might take
me two hours to run the simplest of test cases. The CPU
in there, stays pinned at 100% doing stuff I don't care
about, and playing "whack-a-mole" with it, really isn't
all that helpful in the overall scheme of things. Part
of this is the fault of VirtualBox, but most of it is
Windows 10.

Paul
  #22  
Old December 28th 17, 08:02 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Bill in Co
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,811
Default dog ate my desktop

J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , Paul
writes:
wrote:
On Thu, 28 Dec 2017 01:53:21 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
wrote:

In message ,
writes:
On Tue, 26 Dec 2017 23:21:43 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
wrote:

In message , Shadow
writes:
On Tue, 26 Dec 2017 17:57:04 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
wrote:

In message , Paul
writes:
[]
On WinXP, files outside your "My Documents" tree
are tracked. Say you normally keep Firefox downloads
[]
Restore Point. Files kept in the "officially blessed"
parts of C: are unaffected, so nothing in My Documents
gets added or subtracted to match the way it was
three days ago.

Paul
Are you saying _everything_ else - or maybe everything else on C:
- gets tracked, and potentially restored (synced)? This must make
for a huge tracking area (if for example you [or the system]
delete a few feature films).
They have another record in the NTFS stream and also various
in the registry. Long after you deleted the original files. Yes,
it's there for forensic purposes. What else ?
[]'s
I wasn't in tinfoil-hat mode - just more surprised at the storage
involved. From what is said above, if you deleted a few feature
films, then unless you were storing them in an "officially blessed"
area, invoking a Restore Point would magically restore them; I was
just thinking that, if true, this implies a backup storage area as
big as your disc (or maybe half as big), which seems unlikely,
System Restore does not restore all of the data, only the internals of
Windows necessary to make it run. An image is just that, a bit copy of
the drive. Images are very big, essentially the same size as all of
the data on the drive, minus whatever compression they may do. Hence
trying to make C: as small as you can. (like not storing media files
there). You can easily back up and restore "data" simply using COPY or
drag and drop. Getting a working version of a post W/98 windows system
is more complicated. XCOPY worked OK to copy a W/98 machine with the
right switches.
I know what an image is. And for what I thought was that reason, I
keep as little data on my C: partition as software will let me. The
line above that surprised me was 'files outside your "My Documents"
tree are tracked'; this was in the context of System Restores, not
images. The _implication_ was that _all_ files (outside the tree) are
tracked (and restored at a System Restore, which would necessitate
copies of _all_ files deleted being stored somewhere - which seemed
unlikely to me
From the help
"Restoring your computer does not affect or change your personal data
files."


True.

If you do things the "Microsoft way" and
stay in My Documents like a good boy.

OK, let's try an experiment. This is a virtual machine
containing WinXP, from modernie.com (a Microsoft site).
I got this virtual machine a number of years ago, before
Microsoft removed them (because "WinXP isn't supported" yadda yadda).

https://s17.postimg.org/w2ewlgba7/sr_before.gif

https://s17.postimg.org/7lwqr0d4f/sr_after.gif

OK, so here is the time line.

1) 10:11:29 PM Set a restore point entitled
"And files after this will be deleted"
2) 10:13 PM Create one.exe and two.exe in
C:\Downloads. EXE files are on the
"tracked" list. (See Burts web page.)
3) 10:24 PM The "current time" in the sr_before picture.
And I take this picture, just as I am about
to click the "restore" buttom.
4) 10:26 PM The "current time" in the sr_after picture.
I just opened C:\Downloads for a look and
my two EXE files were erased. Why ? Because
at 10:11 when the restore point was set, those
files didn't exist in C:\Downloads, and that's
the way it's gonna be after the restore to 10:11 point.

Now, I also did the experiment with "one.txt" and "two.txt".
That file extension is *not* tracked. When the restore was
clicked, one.txt and two.txt were not erased from C:\Downloads.
They were still there.

If I'd placed one.exe and two.exe inside My Documents,
they would have been safe. I didn't bother running
that test case.

All I really needed to do in this case, is demonstrate
a "danger", and leave it to you to plan accordingly.
(With a "safety backup" done in a trustworthy way.)

I first discovered this, by having files erased on me
after using a Restore Point. I didn't actually read the
SR site until after that.

Paul


So you've proved (for some value of "proved") that files created after
the restore point are deleted by invoking it.

How about the other case: 'files outside your "My Documents" tree are
tracked' also _implies_ that files that _did_ exist when the restore
point was created, but were subsequently deleted, will magically
reappear when it's invoked. This was the bit I found hard to swallow.


And I'm pretty sure that was what happened (recalling my past results), but
*only* for the monitored file types (like EXE), and NOT for documents and
such. Remember System Restore is "only" monitoring a select subset of file
types, so it's not like it has to keep track of ALL files.

BTW, which is why using ERUNT is a bit "safer" to use in some cases. :-)


  #23  
Old December 28th 17, 09:51 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Bill in Co
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,811
Default dog ate my desktop

Bill in Co wrote:
J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , Paul
writes:
wrote:
On Thu, 28 Dec 2017 01:53:21 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
wrote:

In message ,
writes:
On Tue, 26 Dec 2017 23:21:43 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
wrote:

In message , Shadow
writes:
On Tue, 26 Dec 2017 17:57:04 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
wrote:

In message , Paul
writes:
[]
On WinXP, files outside your "My Documents" tree
are tracked. Say you normally keep Firefox downloads
[]
Restore Point. Files kept in the "officially blessed"
parts of C: are unaffected, so nothing in My Documents
gets added or subtracted to match the way it was
three days ago.

Paul
Are you saying _everything_ else - or maybe everything else on C:
- gets tracked, and potentially restored (synced)? This must make
for a huge tracking area (if for example you [or the system]
delete a few feature films).
They have another record in the NTFS stream and also various
in the registry. Long after you deleted the original files. Yes,
it's there for forensic purposes. What else ?
[]'s
I wasn't in tinfoil-hat mode - just more surprised at the storage
involved. From what is said above, if you deleted a few feature
films, then unless you were storing them in an "officially blessed"
area, invoking a Restore Point would magically restore them; I was
just thinking that, if true, this implies a backup storage area as
big as your disc (or maybe half as big), which seems unlikely,
System Restore does not restore all of the data, only the internals
of Windows necessary to make it run. An image is just that, a bit
copy of the drive. Images are very big, essentially the same size as
all of the data on the drive, minus whatever compression they may
do. Hence trying to make C: as small as you can. (like not storing
media files there). You can easily back up and restore "data" simply
using COPY or drag and drop. Getting a working version of a post
W/98 windows system is more complicated. XCOPY worked OK to copy a
W/98 machine with the right switches.
I know what an image is. And for what I thought was that reason, I
keep as little data on my C: partition as software will let me. The
line above that surprised me was 'files outside your "My Documents"
tree are tracked'; this was in the context of System Restores, not
images. The _implication_ was that _all_ files (outside the tree) are
tracked (and restored at a System Restore, which would necessitate
copies of _all_ files deleted being stored somewhere - which seemed
unlikely to me
From the help
"Restoring your computer does not affect or change your personal data
files."

True.

If you do things the "Microsoft way" and
stay in My Documents like a good boy.

OK, let's try an experiment. This is a virtual machine
containing WinXP, from modernie.com (a Microsoft site).
I got this virtual machine a number of years ago, before
Microsoft removed them (because "WinXP isn't supported" yadda yadda).

https://s17.postimg.org/w2ewlgba7/sr_before.gif

https://s17.postimg.org/7lwqr0d4f/sr_after.gif

OK, so here is the time line.

1) 10:11:29 PM Set a restore point entitled
"And files after this will be deleted"
2) 10:13 PM Create one.exe and two.exe in
C:\Downloads. EXE files are on the
"tracked" list. (See Burts web page.)
3) 10:24 PM The "current time" in the sr_before picture.
And I take this picture, just as I am about
to click the "restore" buttom.
4) 10:26 PM The "current time" in the sr_after picture.
I just opened C:\Downloads for a look and
my two EXE files were erased. Why ? Because
at 10:11 when the restore point was set, those
files didn't exist in C:\Downloads, and that's
the way it's gonna be after the restore to 10:11 point.

Now, I also did the experiment with "one.txt" and "two.txt".
That file extension is *not* tracked. When the restore was
clicked, one.txt and two.txt were not erased from C:\Downloads.
They were still there.

If I'd placed one.exe and two.exe inside My Documents,
they would have been safe. I didn't bother running
that test case.

All I really needed to do in this case, is demonstrate
a "danger", and leave it to you to plan accordingly.
(With a "safety backup" done in a trustworthy way.)

I first discovered this, by having files erased on me
after using a Restore Point. I didn't actually read the
SR site until after that.

Paul


So you've proved (for some value of "proved") that files created after
the restore point are deleted by invoking it.

How about the other case: 'files outside your "My Documents" tree are
tracked' also _implies_ that files that _did_ exist when the restore
point was created, but were subsequently deleted, will magically
reappear when it's invoked. This was the bit I found hard to swallow.


And I'm pretty sure that was what happened (recalling my past results),
but *only* for the monitored file types (like EXE), and NOT for documents
and such. Remember System Restore is "only" monitoring a select subset
of file types, so it's not like it has to keep track of ALL files.

BTW, which is why using ERUNT is a bit "safer" to use in some cases. :-)


An update. I was going to run a test on this, but then I just figured it
out, I think. To answer John's suspicion about it being hard to swallow, I
think I know how SR works its magic. As soon as you delete a monitored file,
System Restore saves that file in its restore point, and that is how it can
be brought back later. What that means is the size of the restore point
(seen in the System Volume Information folders) is proportional to how much
you delete, of course. I may be misinterpreting something written here, but
I think that's answering this question.


  #24  
Old December 29th 17, 12:07 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Paul[_32_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,886
Default dog ate my desktop

Bill in Co wrote:
Bill in Co wrote:
J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , Paul
writes:
wrote:
On Thu, 28 Dec 2017 01:53:21 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
wrote:

In message ,
writes:
On Tue, 26 Dec 2017 23:21:43 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
wrote:

In message , Shadow
writes:
On Tue, 26 Dec 2017 17:57:04 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
wrote:

In message , Paul
writes:
[]
On WinXP, files outside your "My Documents" tree
are tracked. Say you normally keep Firefox downloads
[]
Restore Point. Files kept in the "officially blessed"
parts of C: are unaffected, so nothing in My Documents
gets added or subtracted to match the way it was
three days ago.

Paul
Are you saying _everything_ else - or maybe everything else on C:
- gets tracked, and potentially restored (synced)? This must make
for a huge tracking area (if for example you [or the system]
delete a few feature films).
They have another record in the NTFS stream and also various
in the registry. Long after you deleted the original files. Yes,
it's there for forensic purposes. What else ?
[]'s
I wasn't in tinfoil-hat mode - just more surprised at the storage
involved. From what is said above, if you deleted a few feature
films, then unless you were storing them in an "officially blessed"
area, invoking a Restore Point would magically restore them; I was
just thinking that, if true, this implies a backup storage area as
big as your disc (or maybe half as big), which seems unlikely,
System Restore does not restore all of the data, only the internals
of Windows necessary to make it run. An image is just that, a bit
copy of the drive. Images are very big, essentially the same size as
all of the data on the drive, minus whatever compression they may
do. Hence trying to make C: as small as you can. (like not storing
media files there). You can easily back up and restore "data" simply
using COPY or drag and drop. Getting a working version of a post
W/98 windows system is more complicated. XCOPY worked OK to copy a
W/98 machine with the right switches.
I know what an image is. And for what I thought was that reason, I
keep as little data on my C: partition as software will let me. The
line above that surprised me was 'files outside your "My Documents"
tree are tracked'; this was in the context of System Restores, not
images. The _implication_ was that _all_ files (outside the tree) are
tracked (and restored at a System Restore, which would necessitate
copies of _all_ files deleted being stored somewhere - which seemed
unlikely to me
From the help
"Restoring your computer does not affect or change your personal data
files."
True.

If you do things the "Microsoft way" and
stay in My Documents like a good boy.

OK, let's try an experiment. This is a virtual machine
containing WinXP, from modernie.com (a Microsoft site).
I got this virtual machine a number of years ago, before
Microsoft removed them (because "WinXP isn't supported" yadda yadda).

https://s17.postimg.org/w2ewlgba7/sr_before.gif

https://s17.postimg.org/7lwqr0d4f/sr_after.gif

OK, so here is the time line.

1) 10:11:29 PM Set a restore point entitled
"And files after this will be deleted"
2) 10:13 PM Create one.exe and two.exe in
C:\Downloads. EXE files are on the
"tracked" list. (See Burts web page.)
3) 10:24 PM The "current time" in the sr_before picture.
And I take this picture, just as I am about
to click the "restore" buttom.
4) 10:26 PM The "current time" in the sr_after picture.
I just opened C:\Downloads for a look and
my two EXE files were erased. Why ? Because
at 10:11 when the restore point was set, those
files didn't exist in C:\Downloads, and that's
the way it's gonna be after the restore to 10:11 point.

Now, I also did the experiment with "one.txt" and "two.txt".
That file extension is *not* tracked. When the restore was
clicked, one.txt and two.txt were not erased from C:\Downloads.
They were still there.

If I'd placed one.exe and two.exe inside My Documents,
they would have been safe. I didn't bother running
that test case.

All I really needed to do in this case, is demonstrate
a "danger", and leave it to you to plan accordingly.
(With a "safety backup" done in a trustworthy way.)

I first discovered this, by having files erased on me
after using a Restore Point. I didn't actually read the
SR site until after that.

Paul
So you've proved (for some value of "proved") that files created after
the restore point are deleted by invoking it.

How about the other case: 'files outside your "My Documents" tree are
tracked' also _implies_ that files that _did_ exist when the restore
point was created, but were subsequently deleted, will magically
reappear when it's invoked. This was the bit I found hard to swallow.

And I'm pretty sure that was what happened (recalling my past results),
but *only* for the monitored file types (like EXE), and NOT for documents
and such. Remember System Restore is "only" monitoring a select subset
of file types, so it's not like it has to keep track of ALL files.

BTW, which is why using ERUNT is a bit "safer" to use in some cases. :-)


An update. I was going to run a test on this, but then I just figured it
out, I think. To answer John's suspicion about it being hard to swallow, I
think I know how SR works its magic. As soon as you delete a monitored file,
System Restore saves that file in its restore point, and that is how it can
be brought back later. What that means is the size of the restore point
(seen in the System Volume Information folders) is proportional to how much
you delete, of course. I may be misinterpreting something written here, but
I think that's answering this question.


Here is a picture of a Restore Point in WinXP.

https://s17.postimg.org/wybuk71vj/Wi...t_surprise.gif

Paul
  #25  
Old December 29th 17, 12:11 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
J. P. Gilliver (John)[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,041
Default dog ate my desktop

In message , Paul
writes:
J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:

How about the other case: 'files outside your "My Documents" tree
are tracked' also _implies_ that files that _did_ exist when the
restore point was created, but were subsequently deleted, will
magically reappear when it's invoked. This was the bit I found hard
to swallow.


That's possible and likely to happen.

Why not test it ? :-)

*******

This is what VMs are for.


Hm. My main machine (this XP one) is a single-core, with the 2G maximum
it can take; my W7, with 3G, is I _think_ also a single core.

Hence VMs are something I haven't really played with ... (-:
[]
I think what I'd missed was that only certain file _types_ are tracked.
(Though even that could lead to pretty big restore points.)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)[email protected]+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

All's well that ends.
  #26  
Old December 29th 17, 12:23 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Bill in Co
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,811
Default dog ate my desktop

Paul wrote:
Bill in Co wrote:
Bill in Co wrote:
J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , Paul
writes:
wrote:
On Thu, 28 Dec 2017 01:53:21 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
wrote:

In message ,
writes:
On Tue, 26 Dec 2017 23:21:43 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
wrote:

In message , Shadow
writes:
On Tue, 26 Dec 2017 17:57:04 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
wrote:

In message , Paul
writes:
[]
On WinXP, files outside your "My Documents" tree
are tracked. Say you normally keep Firefox downloads
[]
Restore Point. Files kept in the "officially blessed"
parts of C: are unaffected, so nothing in My Documents
gets added or subtracted to match the way it was
three days ago.

Paul
Are you saying _everything_ else - or maybe everything else on
C: - gets tracked, and potentially restored (synced)? This must
make for a huge tracking area (if for example you [or the
system] delete a few feature films).
They have another record in the NTFS stream and also
various in the registry. Long after you deleted the original
files. Yes, it's there for forensic purposes. What else ?
[]'s
I wasn't in tinfoil-hat mode - just more surprised at the storage
involved. From what is said above, if you deleted a few feature
films, then unless you were storing them in an "officially
blessed" area, invoking a Restore Point would magically restore
them; I was just thinking that, if true, this implies a backup
storage area as big as your disc (or maybe half as big), which
seems unlikely,
System Restore does not restore all of the data, only the internals
of Windows necessary to make it run. An image is just that, a bit
copy of the drive. Images are very big, essentially the same size
as all of the data on the drive, minus whatever compression they
may do. Hence trying to make C: as small as you can. (like not
storing media files there). You can easily back up and restore
"data" simply using COPY or drag and drop. Getting a working
version of a post W/98 windows system is more complicated. XCOPY
worked OK to copy a W/98 machine with the right switches.
I know what an image is. And for what I thought was that reason, I
keep as little data on my C: partition as software will let me. The
line above that surprised me was 'files outside your "My Documents"
tree are tracked'; this was in the context of System Restores, not
images. The _implication_ was that _all_ files (outside the tree)
are tracked (and restored at a System Restore, which would
necessitate copies of _all_ files deleted being stored somewhere -
which seemed unlikely to me
From the help
"Restoring your computer does not affect or change your personal data
files."
True.

If you do things the "Microsoft way" and
stay in My Documents like a good boy.

OK, let's try an experiment. This is a virtual machine
containing WinXP, from modernie.com (a Microsoft site).
I got this virtual machine a number of years ago, before
Microsoft removed them (because "WinXP isn't supported" yadda yadda).

https://s17.postimg.org/w2ewlgba7/sr_before.gif

https://s17.postimg.org/7lwqr0d4f/sr_after.gif

OK, so here is the time line.

1) 10:11:29 PM Set a restore point entitled
"And files after this will be deleted"
2) 10:13 PM Create one.exe and two.exe in
C:\Downloads. EXE files are on the
"tracked" list. (See Burts web page.)
3) 10:24 PM The "current time" in the sr_before picture.
And I take this picture, just as I am about
to click the "restore" buttom.
4) 10:26 PM The "current time" in the sr_after picture.
I just opened C:\Downloads for a look and
my two EXE files were erased. Why ? Because
at 10:11 when the restore point was set, those
files didn't exist in C:\Downloads, and that's
the way it's gonna be after the restore to 10:11
point. Now, I also did the experiment with "one.txt" and "two.txt".
That file extension is *not* tracked. When the restore was
clicked, one.txt and two.txt were not erased from C:\Downloads.
They were still there.

If I'd placed one.exe and two.exe inside My Documents,
they would have been safe. I didn't bother running
that test case.

All I really needed to do in this case, is demonstrate
a "danger", and leave it to you to plan accordingly.
(With a "safety backup" done in a trustworthy way.)

I first discovered this, by having files erased on me
after using a Restore Point. I didn't actually read the
SR site until after that.

Paul
So you've proved (for some value of "proved") that files created after
the restore point are deleted by invoking it.

How about the other case: 'files outside your "My Documents" tree are
tracked' also _implies_ that files that _did_ exist when the restore
point was created, but were subsequently deleted, will magically
reappear when it's invoked. This was the bit I found hard to swallow.
And I'm pretty sure that was what happened (recalling my past results),
but *only* for the monitored file types (like EXE), and NOT for
documents and such. Remember System Restore is "only" monitoring a
select subset of file types, so it's not like it has to keep track of
ALL files. BTW, which is why using ERUNT is a bit "safer" to use in some
cases. :-)


An update. I was going to run a test on this, but then I just figured it
out, I think. To answer John's suspicion about it being hard to
swallow, I think I know how SR works its magic. As soon as you delete a
monitored file, System Restore saves that file in its restore point, and
that is how it can be brought back later. What that means is the size
of the restore point (seen in the System Volume Information folders) is
proportional to how much you delete, of course. I may be
misinterpreting something written here, but I think that's answering
this question.


Here is a picture of a Restore Point in WinXP.

https://s17.postimg.org/wybuk71vj/Wi...t_surprise.gif

Paul


Yup, there's a mess of stuff in there!. One can see this by clicking on the
System Volume Information main folder and selecting "Explore" with a right
mouse click.

I've found on the average each restore point subdirectory may be around 200
MB in size, but it really varies a LOT with what has happened since the
prior restore subdirectory was created. And there are one or more of these
RPnnnn subfolders in there for each day of activity.


  #27  
Old December 29th 17, 12:28 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Bill in Co
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,811
Default dog ate my desktop

J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , Paul
writes:
J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:

How about the other case: 'files outside your "My Documents" tree
are tracked' also _implies_ that files that _did_ exist when the
restore point was created, but were subsequently deleted, will
magically reappear when it's invoked. This was the bit I found hard
to swallow.


That's possible and likely to happen.

Why not test it ? :-)

*******

This is what VMs are for.


Hm. My main machine (this XP one) is a single-core, with the 2G maximum
it can take; my W7, with 3G, is I _think_ also a single core.

Hence VMs are something I haven't really played with ... (-:
[]
I think what I'd missed was that only certain file _types_ are tracked.
(Though even that could lead to pretty big restore points.)


And it indeed does, if you delete some large files of the monitored type.
I've witnessed that firsthand, since, on occasion, I've monitored those
RPnnnn system restore subdirectories and files created throughout the day
that lie inside the System Volume Information main folder. You can see all
those if you right mouse click on System Information Volume, and select
Explore.


  #28  
Old December 29th 17, 12:41 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Paul[_32_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,886
Default dog ate my desktop

Bill in Co wrote:
Paul wrote:
Bill in Co wrote:
Bill in Co wrote:
J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , Paul
writes:
wrote:
On Thu, 28 Dec 2017 01:53:21 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
wrote:

In message ,
writes:
On Tue, 26 Dec 2017 23:21:43 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
wrote:

In message , Shadow
writes:
On Tue, 26 Dec 2017 17:57:04 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
wrote:

In message , Paul
writes:
[]
On WinXP, files outside your "My Documents" tree
are tracked. Say you normally keep Firefox downloads
[]
Restore Point. Files kept in the "officially blessed"
parts of C: are unaffected, so nothing in My Documents
gets added or subtracted to match the way it was
three days ago.

Paul
Are you saying _everything_ else - or maybe everything else on
C: - gets tracked, and potentially restored (synced)? This must
make for a huge tracking area (if for example you [or the
system] delete a few feature films).
They have another record in the NTFS stream and also
various in the registry. Long after you deleted the original
files. Yes, it's there for forensic purposes. What else ?
[]'s
I wasn't in tinfoil-hat mode - just more surprised at the storage
involved. From what is said above, if you deleted a few feature
films, then unless you were storing them in an "officially
blessed" area, invoking a Restore Point would magically restore
them; I was just thinking that, if true, this implies a backup
storage area as big as your disc (or maybe half as big), which
seems unlikely,
System Restore does not restore all of the data, only the internals
of Windows necessary to make it run. An image is just that, a bit
copy of the drive. Images are very big, essentially the same size
as all of the data on the drive, minus whatever compression they
may do. Hence trying to make C: as small as you can. (like not
storing media files there). You can easily back up and restore
"data" simply using COPY or drag and drop. Getting a working
version of a post W/98 windows system is more complicated. XCOPY
worked OK to copy a W/98 machine with the right switches.
I know what an image is. And for what I thought was that reason, I
keep as little data on my C: partition as software will let me. The
line above that surprised me was 'files outside your "My Documents"
tree are tracked'; this was in the context of System Restores, not
images. The _implication_ was that _all_ files (outside the tree)
are tracked (and restored at a System Restore, which would
necessitate copies of _all_ files deleted being stored somewhere -
which seemed unlikely to me
From the help
"Restoring your computer does not affect or change your personal data
files."
True.

If you do things the "Microsoft way" and
stay in My Documents like a good boy.

OK, let's try an experiment. This is a virtual machine
containing WinXP, from modernie.com (a Microsoft site).
I got this virtual machine a number of years ago, before
Microsoft removed them (because "WinXP isn't supported" yadda yadda).

https://s17.postimg.org/w2ewlgba7/sr_before.gif

https://s17.postimg.org/7lwqr0d4f/sr_after.gif

OK, so here is the time line.

1) 10:11:29 PM Set a restore point entitled
"And files after this will be deleted"
2) 10:13 PM Create one.exe and two.exe in
C:\Downloads. EXE files are on the
"tracked" list. (See Burts web page.)
3) 10:24 PM The "current time" in the sr_before picture.
And I take this picture, just as I am about
to click the "restore" buttom.
4) 10:26 PM The "current time" in the sr_after picture.
I just opened C:\Downloads for a look and
my two EXE files were erased. Why ? Because
at 10:11 when the restore point was set, those
files didn't exist in C:\Downloads, and that's
the way it's gonna be after the restore to 10:11
point. Now, I also did the experiment with "one.txt" and "two.txt".
That file extension is *not* tracked. When the restore was
clicked, one.txt and two.txt were not erased from C:\Downloads.
They were still there.

If I'd placed one.exe and two.exe inside My Documents,
they would have been safe. I didn't bother running
that test case.

All I really needed to do in this case, is demonstrate
a "danger", and leave it to you to plan accordingly.
(With a "safety backup" done in a trustworthy way.)

I first discovered this, by having files erased on me
after using a Restore Point. I didn't actually read the
SR site until after that.

Paul
So you've proved (for some value of "proved") that files created after
the restore point are deleted by invoking it.

How about the other case: 'files outside your "My Documents" tree are
tracked' also _implies_ that files that _did_ exist when the restore
point was created, but were subsequently deleted, will magically
reappear when it's invoked. This was the bit I found hard to swallow.
And I'm pretty sure that was what happened (recalling my past results),
but *only* for the monitored file types (like EXE), and NOT for
documents and such. Remember System Restore is "only" monitoring a
select subset of file types, so it's not like it has to keep track of
ALL files. BTW, which is why using ERUNT is a bit "safer" to use in some
cases. :-)
An update. I was going to run a test on this, but then I just figured it
out, I think. To answer John's suspicion about it being hard to
swallow, I think I know how SR works its magic. As soon as you delete a
monitored file, System Restore saves that file in its restore point, and
that is how it can be brought back later. What that means is the size
of the restore point (seen in the System Volume Information folders) is
proportional to how much you delete, of course. I may be
misinterpreting something written here, but I think that's answering
this question.

Here is a picture of a Restore Point in WinXP.

https://s17.postimg.org/wybuk71vj/Wi...t_surprise.gif

Paul


Yup, there's a mess of stuff in there!. One can see this by clicking on the
System Volume Information main folder and selecting "Explore" with a right
mouse click.

I've found on the average each restore point subdirectory may be around 200
MB in size, but it really varies a LOT with what has happened since the
prior restore subdirectory was created. And there are one or more of these
RPnnnn subfolders in there for each day of activity.


You know, it just occurred to me. Something in that picture
looks familiar :-)

The A0001440.exe and A0001441.exe files are my "two.exe" and
"one.exe" test files :-) To make the files, there was a slight
accident while I was making fakes (they're not really PE files
inside). They were supposed to be the same size, but one ended
up half the size of the other. And it helped me spot them. So
the files that got erased, if you moved forward in time, it's
my guess those files would put things right again.

Paul
  #29  
Old January 8th 18, 08:21 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Bill in Co
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,811
Default dog ate my desktop

Bill in Co wrote:
Paul wrote:
Bill in Co wrote:
Bill in Co wrote:
J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , Paul
writes:
wrote:
On Thu, 28 Dec 2017 01:53:21 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
wrote:

In message ,
writes:
On Tue, 26 Dec 2017 23:21:43 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
wrote:

In message , Shadow
writes:
On Tue, 26 Dec 2017 17:57:04 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
wrote:

In message , Paul
writes:
[]
On WinXP, files outside your "My Documents" tree
are tracked. Say you normally keep Firefox downloads
[]
Restore Point. Files kept in the "officially blessed"
parts of C: are unaffected, so nothing in My Documents
gets added or subtracted to match the way it was
three days ago.

Paul
Are you saying _everything_ else - or maybe everything else on
C: - gets tracked, and potentially restored (synced)? This must
make for a huge tracking area (if for example you [or the
system] delete a few feature films).
They have another record in the NTFS stream and also
various in the registry. Long after you deleted the original
files. Yes, it's there for forensic purposes. What else ?
[]'s
I wasn't in tinfoil-hat mode - just more surprised at the storage
involved. From what is said above, if you deleted a few feature
films, then unless you were storing them in an "officially
blessed" area, invoking a Restore Point would magically restore
them; I was just thinking that, if true, this implies a backup
storage area as big as your disc (or maybe half as big), which
seems unlikely,
System Restore does not restore all of the data, only the
internals of Windows necessary to make it run. An image is just
that, a bit copy of the drive. Images are very big, essentially
the same size as all of the data on the drive, minus whatever
compression they may do. Hence trying to make C: as small as you
can. (like not storing media files there). You can easily back up
and restore "data" simply using COPY or drag and drop. Getting a
working version of a post W/98 windows system is more
complicated. XCOPY worked OK to copy a W/98 machine with the
right switches.
I know what an image is. And for what I thought was that reason, I
keep as little data on my C: partition as software will let me.
The line above that surprised me was 'files outside your "My
Documents" tree are tracked'; this was in the context of System
Restores, not images. The _implication_ was that _all_ files
(outside the tree) are tracked (and restored at a System Restore,
which would necessitate copies of _all_ files deleted being
stored somewhere - which seemed unlikely to me
From the help
"Restoring your computer does not affect or change your personal
data files."
True.

If you do things the "Microsoft way" and
stay in My Documents like a good boy.

OK, let's try an experiment. This is a virtual machine
containing WinXP, from modernie.com (a Microsoft site).
I got this virtual machine a number of years ago, before
Microsoft removed them (because "WinXP isn't supported" yadda yadda).

https://s17.postimg.org/w2ewlgba7/sr_before.gif

https://s17.postimg.org/7lwqr0d4f/sr_after.gif

OK, so here is the time line.

1) 10:11:29 PM Set a restore point entitled
"And files after this will be deleted"
2) 10:13 PM Create one.exe and two.exe in
C:\Downloads. EXE files are on the
"tracked" list. (See Burts web page.)
3) 10:24 PM The "current time" in the sr_before picture.
And I take this picture, just as I am about
to click the "restore" buttom.
4) 10:26 PM The "current time" in the sr_after picture.
I just opened C:\Downloads for a look and
my two EXE files were erased. Why ? Because
at 10:11 when the restore point was set, those
files didn't exist in C:\Downloads, and that's
the way it's gonna be after the restore to 10:11
point. Now, I also did the experiment with "one.txt" and "two.txt".
That file extension is *not* tracked. When the restore was
clicked, one.txt and two.txt were not erased from C:\Downloads.
They were still there.

If I'd placed one.exe and two.exe inside My Documents,
they would have been safe. I didn't bother running
that test case.

All I really needed to do in this case, is demonstrate
a "danger", and leave it to you to plan accordingly.
(With a "safety backup" done in a trustworthy way.)

I first discovered this, by having files erased on me
after using a Restore Point. I didn't actually read the
SR site until after that.

Paul
So you've proved (for some value of "proved") that files created after
the restore point are deleted by invoking it.

How about the other case: 'files outside your "My Documents" tree are
tracked' also _implies_ that files that _did_ exist when the restore
point was created, but were subsequently deleted, will magically
reappear when it's invoked. This was the bit I found hard to swallow.
And I'm pretty sure that was what happened (recalling my past results),
but *only* for the monitored file types (like EXE), and NOT for
documents and such. Remember System Restore is "only" monitoring a
select subset of file types, so it's not like it has to keep track of
ALL files. BTW, which is why using ERUNT is a bit "safer" to use in
some cases. :-)

An update. I was going to run a test on this, but then I just figured
it out, I think. To answer John's suspicion about it being hard to
swallow, I think I know how SR works its magic. As soon as you delete a
monitored file, System Restore saves that file in its restore point, and
that is how it can be brought back later. What that means is the size
of the restore point (seen in the System Volume Information folders) is
proportional to how much you delete, of course. I may be
misinterpreting something written here, but I think that's answering
this question.


Here is a picture of a Restore Point in WinXP.

https://s17.postimg.org/wybuk71vj/Wi...t_surprise.gif

Paul


Yup, there's a mess of stuff in there!. One can see this by clicking on
the System Volume Information main folder and selecting "Explore" with a
right mouse click.

I've found on the average each restore point subdirectory may be around
200 MB in size, but it really varies a LOT with what has happened since
the prior restore subdirectory was created. And there are one or more of
these RPnnnn subfolders in there for each day of activity.


Just a correction to my post, sorry, but I wanted to correct this error for
the record. I would say the average system restore point folder size is
more on the order of 50 MB, give or take. It really depends on how much
you've changed your system (including deleting monitored files). But again,
if you delete a monitored file type or uninstall a program, it will be saved
(the monitored files) in one of those RPnnnn folders.


 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off






All times are GMT +1. The time now is 07:28 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2004-2018 PCbanter.
The comments are property of their posters.