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  #16  
Old December 28th 17, 06:03 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Paul[_32_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,824
Default PC insomnia

T wrote:


The bad news is that Windows is not a stable operating system.


Have you seen a kernel panic ?

That's a measure of stability.

If you stripped the DE off the thing, I'm sure the
core of the OS would be quite stable.

The layers on top, not so much.

Is Windows 10 a "usable OS" ? Opinions vary *a lot* on that.

I can't run a benchmark in peace, on a Win10 machine.
In my second benchmark run, some maintenance activity
will randomly start, ruining my collected results.
I can even wait two hours for the OS to "quiet down".
Then, as soon as I run my benchmark, Lisa Simpson
will start one of her maintenance processes running,
to show who is the boss. Is the OS usable for benchmarking ?
Nope, not at all!

*******

It's the same with Linux. For the most part, the
core is stable. A notable exception, is when new
subsystems come online. When webcam drivers were
placed in the kernel (instead of user space) for
the first time, I managed to trigger a kernel panic,
by using my webcam the second time. The first time,
the webcam worked. I tried to open the webcam a
second time and triggered a kernel panic.

That was fixed in subsequent kernel releases. Back
to stable again.

But the kernel doesn't receive massive insults like
that every day, so for the most part, the kernel
is reliable.

Usability of individual DEs is all over the place.

Just like the DE on Windows.

Paul
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  #17  
Old December 28th 17, 06:39 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Char Jackson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,131
Default PC insomnia

On Thu, 28 Dec 2017 10:52:44 -0600, Rene Lamontagne
wrote:

On 12/28/2017 10:04 AM, Ken Blake wrote:
On Thu, 28 Dec 2017 00:01:17 -0800, T wrote:

The bad news is that Windows is not a stable operating system.



I completely disagree.



The
good news is that you can cope by shutting down or reboot once a day



I *never* do that--not unless an update requires it, or I am going
away on vacation. And Windows remains completely stable.



Plus computers are like car tires, the longer you use them, the quicker
they wear out.




I completely disagree with that too.



+1



+1

  #18  
Old December 28th 17, 07:06 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
mike[_10_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 955
Default PC insomnia

On 12/28/2017 8:52 AM, Rene Lamontagne wrote:
On 12/28/2017 10:04 AM, Ken Blake wrote:
On Thu, 28 Dec 2017 00:01:17 -0800, T wrote:

The bad news is that Windows is not a stable operating system.



I completely disagree.



The
good news is that you can cope by shutting down or reboot once a day



I *never* do that--not unless an update requires it, or I am going
away on vacation. And Windows remains completely stable.



Plus computers are like car tires, the longer you use them, the quicker
they wear out.




I completely disagree with that too.



+1

Rene

I don't have a lot of experience with win10, but my Win 7
TV time-shifting machine
sleeps until it's time to record, then goes back to sleep.
Records 10-40 GB/day.
It crashes about once a month coming out of sleep. I get some bios
beeps and the boot hangs. If I reboot it every few weeks, this doesn't
happen.
  #19  
Old December 28th 17, 07:46 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Micky
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,068
Default PC insomnia

In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Thu, 28 Dec 2017 16:23:51 +0000, Optimist
wrote:

On Thu, 28 Dec 2017 22:47:31 +0800, "Mr. Man-wai Chang" wrote:

On 28/12/2017 14:34, Optimist wrote:
Why is it that very often the PC keeps awake? The monitor switches off OK, but whereas sometimes
the PC's light blinks indicating sleep, very often it just keeps going, sometimes for more than 24
hours.

I know W10 has to do housekeeping tasks like creating backups of the operating system but surely
these tasks can't take all that time?
...


Did you turn off Defrag? And don't forget about Window$ Defender might
do some background scanning when the PC is idle....


I haven't done anything to Defrag. Windows Defender not active as Kaspersky is running.


Dah, I'm reading ze data from your computer now, to try to see why your
computer, it is very often awake, Comrade, but is no answer yet.

Comrade Micky

  #20  
Old December 28th 17, 07:49 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Micky
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,068
Default PC insomnia

In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Thu, 28 Dec 2017 10:57:36 -0600, Rene
Lamontagne wrote:

On 12/28/2017 10:52 AM, Rene Lamontagne wrote:
On 12/28/2017 10:04 AM, Ken Blake wrote:
On Thu, 28 Dec 2017 00:01:17 -0800, T wrote:

The bad news is that Windows is not a stable operating system.


I completely disagree.



The
good news is that you can cope by shutting down or reboot once a day


I *never* do that--not unless an update requires it,* or I am going
away on vacation. And Windows remains completely stable.



Plus computers are like car tires, the longer you use them, the quicker
they wear out.



I completely disagree with that too.



+1

Rene


maybe 2 :-)

Rene


Well, ze hard drive vears out. Doesn't anyone count zat?

Comrade Micky
  #21  
Old December 28th 17, 07:58 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
T
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,603
Default PC insomnia

On 12/28/2017 11:49 AM, micky wrote:
Well, ze hard drive vears out. Doesn't anyone count zat?

Comrade Micky


Ya think??? Fans too.

Let's not mention the stress on capacitors and silicon chips.

  #22  
Old December 28th 17, 08:09 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
T
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,603
Default PC insomnia

On 12/28/2017 08:52 AM, Rene Lamontagne wrote:
On 12/28/2017 10:04 AM, Ken Blake wrote:
On Thu, 28 Dec 2017 00:01:17 -0800, T wrote:

The bad news is that Windows is not a stable operating system.



I completely disagree.



The
good news is that you can cope by shutting down or reboot once a day



I *never* do that--not unless an update requires it,¬* or I am going
away on vacation. And Windows remains completely stable.



Plus computers are like car tires, the longer you use them, the quicker
they wear out.




I completely disagree with that too.



+1

Rene


Hi Ken and Rene,

This the only place I find anyone who thinks Windows
is stable.

If you guys are not being tech evangelists (fan boys) and
are actually being honest, it is a good thing that your experience
if different than mine. Means there is hope for Windows.

Also keep in mind that I only get called when things go
wrong. And, glossing over quality issues in Windows
does not serve my customers well.

Rather than smothering my customers with M$ marketing bull
s***, I try to coach folks in the direction as to what will
make Windows more stable. Actually shutting the damned
thing off at night is a good start.

Since I do not charge for five minute calls, when I
show up at a bizarre Windows 8+ problem and
simply pull the power plug and turn off Fast Boot,
I do take it in the shorts. I do not bill for travel
time and do not have a minimum charge. Hopefully
they have other things that need fixing too, but quite
often not.

I make a good living off of Windows poor quality,
except for fast boot.

-T
  #23  
Old December 28th 17, 08:38 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Optimist
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8
Default PC insomnia

On Thu, 28 Dec 2017 14:46:52 -0500, micky wrote:

In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Thu, 28 Dec 2017 16:23:51 +0000, Optimist
wrote:

On Thu, 28 Dec 2017 22:47:31 +0800, "Mr. Man-wai Chang" wrote:

On 28/12/2017 14:34, Optimist wrote:
Why is it that very often the PC keeps awake? The monitor switches off OK, but whereas sometimes
the PC's light blinks indicating sleep, very often it just keeps going, sometimes for more than 24
hours.

I know W10 has to do housekeeping tasks like creating backups of the operating system but surely
these tasks can't take all that time?
...

Did you turn off Defrag? And don't forget about Window$ Defender might
do some background scanning when the PC is idle....


I haven't done anything to Defrag. Windows Defender not active as Kaspersky is running.


Dah, I'm reading ze data from your computer now, to try to see why your
computer, it is very often awake, Comrade, but is no answer yet.

Comrade Micky


Haha!
  #24  
Old December 28th 17, 08:44 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Rene Lamontagne
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,425
Default PC insomnia

On 12/28/2017 2:09 PM, T wrote:
On 12/28/2017 08:52 AM, Rene Lamontagne wrote:
On 12/28/2017 10:04 AM, Ken Blake wrote:
On Thu, 28 Dec 2017 00:01:17 -0800, T wrote:

The bad news is that Windows is not a stable operating system.


I completely disagree.



The
good news is that you can cope by shutting down or reboot once a day


I *never* do that--not unless an update requires it,¬* or I am going
away on vacation. And Windows remains completely stable.



Plus computers are like car tires, the longer you use them, the quicker
they wear out.



I completely disagree with that too.



+1

Rene


Hi Ken and Rene,

This the only place I find anyone who thinks Windows
is stable.

If you guys are not being tech evangelists (fan boys) and
are actually being honest, it is a good thing that your experience
if different than mine.¬* Means there is hope for Windows.

Also keep in mind that I only get called when things go
wrong.¬* And, glossing over quality issues in Windows
does not serve my customers well.

Rather than smothering my customers with M$ marketing bull
s***, I try to coach folks in the direction as to what will
make Windows more stable.¬* Actually shutting the damned
thing off at night is a good start.

Since I do not charge for five minute calls, when I
show up at a bizarre Windows 8+ problem and
simply pull the power plug and turn off Fast Boot,
I do take it in the shorts.¬* I do not bill for travel
time and do not have a minimum charge.¬* Hopefully
they have other things that need fixing too, but quite
often not.

I make a good living off of Windows poor quality,
except for fast boot.

-T


I am being quite honest about this, I am not an expert but classify
myself as Having plenty of knowledge and experience (since 1975) on
various systems, Windows is an extremely complex system which means I
will never be an expert but mostly manage to tame it to my liking.
I start it when I get up and turn it off when I go to bed.
I do a lot of experimenting and break it when things go wrong, So I
always have various copies of backups when required.
When I leave it alone it behaves very well week after week, no problems.
So yes It is stable, but I also have a good stable i9 system an an Asus
motherboard and a good 850 watt Coolermaster power supply which all helps.

Rene


  #25  
Old December 28th 17, 08:50 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
T
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,603
Default PC insomnia

On 12/28/2017 12:44 PM, Rene Lamontagne wrote:
On 12/28/2017 2:09 PM, T wrote:
On 12/28/2017 08:52 AM, Rene Lamontagne wrote:
On 12/28/2017 10:04 AM, Ken Blake wrote:
On Thu, 28 Dec 2017 00:01:17 -0800, T wrote:

The bad news is that Windows is not a stable operating system.


I completely disagree.



The
good news is that you can cope by shutting down or reboot once a day


I *never* do that--not unless an update requires it,¬* or I am going
away on vacation. And Windows remains completely stable.



Plus computers are like car tires, the longer you use them, the
quicker
they wear out.



I completely disagree with that too.



+1

Rene


Hi Ken and Rene,

This the only place I find anyone who thinks Windows
is stable.

If you guys are not being tech evangelists (fan boys) and
are actually being honest, it is a good thing that your experience
if different than mine.¬* Means there is hope for Windows.

Also keep in mind that I only get called when things go
wrong.¬* And, glossing over quality issues in Windows
does not serve my customers well.

Rather than smothering my customers with M$ marketing bull
s***, I try to coach folks in the direction as to what will
make Windows more stable.¬* Actually shutting the damned
thing off at night is a good start.

Since I do not charge for five minute calls, when I
show up at a bizarre Windows 8+ problem and
simply pull the power plug and turn off Fast Boot,
I do take it in the shorts.¬* I do not bill for travel
time and do not have a minimum charge.¬* Hopefully
they have other things that need fixing too, but quite
often not.

I make a good living off of Windows poor quality,
except for fast boot.

-T


I am being quite honest about this, I am not an expert but classify
myself as Having plenty of knowledge and experience (since 1975) on
various systems, Windows¬* is an extremely complex system which means I
will never be an expert but mostly manage to tame it to my liking.
I start it when I get up and turn it off when I go to bed.
I do a lot of experimenting and break it when things go wrong, So I
always have various copies of backups when required.
When I leave it alone it behaves very well week after week, no problems.
So yes It is stable, but I also have a good stable i9 system an an Asus
motherboard and a good 850 watt Coolermaster power supply which all helps.

Rene



Very cool.

Good hardware does help.

A lot of my customer use $400 cheap assed computers with
power blocks for power supplies. (Desktop, not laptops.)
Hey, it is a living.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pyxJ7GKGFG0


  #26  
Old December 28th 17, 09:05 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Paul[_32_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,824
Default PC insomnia

micky wrote:
In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Thu, 28 Dec 2017 10:57:36 -0600, Rene
Lamontagne wrote:

On 12/28/2017 10:52 AM, Rene Lamontagne wrote:
On 12/28/2017 10:04 AM, Ken Blake wrote:
On Thu, 28 Dec 2017 00:01:17 -0800, T wrote:

The bad news is that Windows is not a stable operating system.

I completely disagree.



The
good news is that you can cope by shutting down or reboot once a day

I *never* do that--not unless an update requires it, or I am going
away on vacation. And Windows remains completely stable.



Plus computers are like car tires, the longer you use them, the quicker
they wear out.


I completely disagree with that too.


+1

Rene

maybe 2 :-)

Rene


Well, ze hard drive vears out. Doesn't anyone count zat?

Comrade Micky


I have a drive here with 38,400 power-on hours.

Is it wearing out ?

It still has a ways to go, to beat the one with 61000 hours.
That one was at work (powered 24/7, ball bearing drive,
no head park, no spin down, no power save, SCSI based).
I would never have guessed a ball bearing would last that
long.

Paul
  #27  
Old December 28th 17, 09:34 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Paul[_32_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,824
Default PC insomnia

T wrote:

Hi Ken and Rene,

This the only place I find anyone who thinks Windows
is stable.

If you guys are not being tech evangelists (fan boys) and
are actually being honest, it is a good thing that your experience
if different than mine. Means there is hope for Windows.

Also keep in mind that I only get called when things go
wrong. And, glossing over quality issues in Windows
does not serve my customers well.

Rather than smothering my customers with M$ marketing bull
s***, I try to coach folks in the direction as to what will
make Windows more stable. Actually shutting the damned
thing off at night is a good start.

Since I do not charge for five minute calls, when I
show up at a bizarre Windows 8+ problem and
simply pull the power plug and turn off Fast Boot,
I do take it in the shorts. I do not bill for travel
time and do not have a minimum charge. Hopefully
they have other things that need fixing too, but quite
often not.

I make a good living off of Windows poor quality,
except for fast boot.

-T


I can give an example of a chronic bad performer.

I think it was WinNT on some lab machines, that used
to crash pretty precisely, after a month of uptime.
(It was like some kind of counter was overflowing, the
bug was known, it wasn't my job to patch the machines :-)
It was kind of a running joke, because these machines
were not maintained by the IT department, and nobody
seemed to be responsible.)

I can't find any details online to provide more color
than that.

And of course, there were bad designs. The "old days"
had all sorts of daft ideas, such as "cooperative multitasking".
Which is just asking for trouble (expect crap like that to
lock up once a day). Both Windows and Mac had such beasts.

Windows 98, the networking stack was blocking, and there
were certain network operations, that if an answer didn't
come back, the OS would seem to freeze. Well, that's not
a very good design (and the company that wrote the networking
stack probably knows why).

There aren't a lot of excuses left now. Everybody copies
everybody else. We use preemptive multitasking, which
does a lot to harden the kernel against Ring3 shenanigans.
Windows still has Paged and UnPaged pool as far as I know,
and that might be considered a weakness. Along with the
current fascination with making Task Manager "gutless".
WinXP Task Manager is the last one that was deserving
of the name "Task Manager". The current one is merely
"Process Status" and couldn't beat it's way out of a
wet paper bag in an emergency.

Paul
  #28  
Old December 28th 17, 09:35 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Ken Blake[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,623
Default PC insomnia

On Thu, 28 Dec 2017 12:09:33 -0800, T wrote:


On 12/28/2017 08:52 AM, Rene Lamontagne wrote:

On 12/28/2017 10:04 AM, Ken Blake wrote:

On Thu, 28 Dec 2017 00:01:17 -0800, T wrote:

The bad news is that Windows is not a stable operating system.


I completely disagree.



The
good news is that you can cope by shutting down or reboot once a day


I *never* do that--not unless an update requires it,¬* or I am going
away on vacation. And Windows remains completely stable.



Plus computers are like car tires, the longer you use them, the quicker
they wear out.



I completely disagree with that too.




+1

Rene



Hi Ken and Rene,

This the only place I find anyone who thinks Windows
is stable.

If you guys are not being tech evangelists (fan boys) and
are actually being honest, it is a good thing that your experience
if different than mine. Means there is hope for Windows.




I am anything but an evangelist. Microsoft does some things very
well, and other things terribly. I am simply reporting my experience
with my computers, my wife's computer, and several others I support.

People who find Windows to be unstable invariably either have flaky
hardware, are infected with malware, or have made bad mistakes in
setting up and configuring it.




Also keep in mind that I only get called when things go
wrong. And, glossing over quality issues in Windows
does not serve my customers well.



That's like hanging around a transmission shop and thinking that all
cars have transmission problems.



Rather than smothering my customers with M$ marketing bull
s***, I try to coach folks in the direction as to what will
make Windows more stable. Actually shutting the damned
thing off at night is a good start.



Once again, I completely disagree. I'll repeat what I said: "I *never*
do that--not unless an update requires it, or I am going
away on vacation. And Windows remains completely stable."

  #29  
Old December 28th 17, 09:44 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Paul[_32_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,824
Default PC insomnia

micky wrote:
In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Thu, 28 Dec 2017 16:23:51 +0000, Optimist
wrote:

On Thu, 28 Dec 2017 22:47:31 +0800, "Mr. Man-wai Chang" wrote:

On 28/12/2017 14:34, Optimist wrote:
Why is it that very often the PC keeps awake? The monitor switches off OK, but whereas sometimes
the PC's light blinks indicating sleep, very often it just keeps going, sometimes for more than 24
hours.

I know W10 has to do housekeeping tasks like creating backups of the operating system but surely
these tasks can't take all that time?
...
Did you turn off Defrag? And don't forget about Window$ Defender might
do some background scanning when the PC is idle....

I haven't done anything to Defrag. Windows Defender not active as Kaspersky is running.


Dah, I'm reading ze data from your computer now, to try to see why your
computer, it is very often awake, Comrade, but is no answer yet.

Comrade Micky


I've had my suspicions about you for some time.

Your accent is a dead giveaway.

Paul
  #30  
Old December 28th 17, 10:51 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Rene Lamontagne
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,425
Default PC insomnia

On 12/28/2017 2:44 PM, Rene Lamontagne wrote:
On 12/28/2017 2:09 PM, T wrote:
On 12/28/2017 08:52 AM, Rene Lamontagne wrote:
On 12/28/2017 10:04 AM, Ken Blake wrote:
On Thu, 28 Dec 2017 00:01:17 -0800, T wrote:

The bad news is that Windows is not a stable operating system.


I completely disagree.



The
good news is that you can cope by shutting down or reboot once a day


I *never* do that--not unless an update requires it,¬* or I am going
away on vacation. And Windows remains completely stable.



Plus computers are like car tires, the longer you use them, the
quicker
they wear out.



I completely disagree with that too.



+1

Rene


Hi Ken and Rene,

This the only place I find anyone who thinks Windows
is stable.

If you guys are not being tech evangelists (fan boys) and
are actually being honest, it is a good thing that your experience
if different than mine.¬* Means there is hope for Windows.

Also keep in mind that I only get called when things go
wrong.¬* And, glossing over quality issues in Windows
does not serve my customers well.

Rather than smothering my customers with M$ marketing bull
s***, I try to coach folks in the direction as to what will
make Windows more stable.¬* Actually shutting the damned
thing off at night is a good start.

Since I do not charge for five minute calls, when I
show up at a bizarre Windows 8+ problem and
simply pull the power plug and turn off Fast Boot,
I do take it in the shorts.¬* I do not bill for travel
time and do not have a minimum charge.¬* Hopefully
they have other things that need fixing too, but quite
often not.

I make a good living off of Windows poor quality,
except for fast boot.

-T


I am being quite honest about this, I am not an expert but classify
myself as Having plenty of knowledge and experience (since 1975) on
various systems, Windows¬* is an extremely complex system which means I
will never be an expert but mostly manage to tame it to my liking.
I start it when I get up and turn it off when I go to bed.
I do a lot of experimenting and break it when things go wrong, So I
always have various copies of backups when required.
When I leave it alone it behaves very well week after week, no problems.
So yes It is stable, but I also have a good stable i9 system an an Asus
motherboard and a good 850 watt Coolermaster power supply which all helps.

Rene



Sorry for the blunder, I must have been dreaming when I typed i9 !!! I
meant i7.

Rene


 




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